Featured Survey: Price and Range, Not Gas Prices, Dominate Worries About EVs

Well, this should help some. Tesla Supercharger visits just got easier thanks to a new app update

The new tesla app is actually showing in real time the charging rate for superchargers, the cost (in dollars) per kWh and the per minute fine for leaving the car attached to a supercharger without charging. The example shown on the web site shows a price that's only twice what it would cost to charge at home from residential rates there in Brewster NY.

 

Whenever I try to celebrate with an EV owner that they never have to go to a gas station again it doesn't seem to impress them... Seems what they love about their EV doesn't have to do much with the pain at the pump. Kinda like seeing traffic in your rear view mirror. It's something that you got past and you don't think about it anymore.

This mindset is a good sign for the transition away from fossil fools. Can't wait to read lots of news about oil companies on the brink of bankruptcy no longer drilling for oil very much anymore because demand is too low to cover the cost and how there's no way they can defend themselves against millions of annual homicide charges in court because they tried to pretend their product's air pollution wasn't killing more people a year than covid killed in two years. I'll enjoy every last bit of them going broke!

 

at 30+ cents per kwh, gas price is the least of my concerns.
of course price and range are bigger for many of us, but there are other considerations as well.
there isn't enough variety in models and mfg's yet. and many of the vehicles that are out are in short supply, and not thoroughly tested over years in mass quantities.

still, ev uptake is at a nice pace and gives us time to improve the grid, and renewables, if we choose to do so.

 

More solar please ....

.

 

We’re net producers annually, last true up shows -2906 kWh. We were still asked to conserve electricity use last summer during the heat wave(s).

Ideally it may be nice to get a vehicle with V2H or V2G capability along with an appropriate charger, but then my wife would likely try to use the carpool sticker to get to and from work…

 

But there is a hitch in your getalong. Virtually every part of crude oil is used some way. In recent decades we've tailored the refining process to produce the proportions that we need to make everything work. When we stop drilling for oil, there will be a huge shortage of heating oils, jet fuel, truck diesel, plastic feed stocks and even "natural gas". There will even be a shortage of the asphalt needed for road construction once we stop distilling gas from crude oil.

A google search will show that only about 46% of the crude oil is extracted as gasoline. The rest is heating oil, diesel, jet fuel and feedstock for plastics. I shudder to think of what it will cost for a cross country flight once the jet fuel is no longer a byproduct of distilling fuels for ground transportation.

I once read that the most efficient transportation is not usually a small car. It's a fully loaded modern jumbo jet. The energy needed per passenger mile once it's reached altitude is remarkably small.

 

Your antiquated notion of our dependence on fossil fools is part of the problem... This transition is ramping up rapidly with more than 10% annual growth in alternative energies. And yes, there's some things we've yet to figure out an alternative for, but your rhetoric, combined with the fact that fossil fool subsidies have never been higher: Fossil Fuel Consumption Subsidies Hit All-Time High in 2022: Will We Ever Abolish Them? - Impakter and international gatherings to address the reduction of greenhouse gases have turned into fossil fool trade shows where they boost their subsidies and embed themselves deeper into regulatory capture is pure evil!

 

Very true, there would be a catastrophic domino effect if crude was to vanish. Not to mention natural gas. Virtually all renewable energy systems depend heavily on petroleum, as does everything from pharmaceuticals to clothing. Some want to rush into it 100% like California, which has actually questioned the need for agriculture. The lack of a complete conversation and further complex discussion is beyond troubling, but many simply want to form life around their passionate narrative.

 

Whenever I see Al Gore and subsidies in the same article I get a little ill. In many countries outside the US, they actually place huge taxes on fossil fuels to fund a lot of their ill-advised spending. Europe in particular had to act quickly so they wouldn't freeze this past winter, as they too had the 100% renewable or bust script down pat. If articles like that continue to be used by those pushing for change, it will never happen. Get the clowns away from the real discussions.

 

So charging my Tesla costs $0.12/kWh which gives about 5 miles/kWh ... $0.12 / 5 ~= $0.024/mile or $2.40/100 miles. For the past year, 13% were free charging reducing the out of pocket cost to ~$2.09/100 miles.

Supercharging on the highway this past year cost ~$0.35/kWh where I get about 4 miles/kWh ... $0.35 / 4 ~= $0.088/mile or $8.80/100 miles. By staying at a motel with free charging and breakfast, I get about about 10% free miles or $7.92/100 miles. But let's use a more recent trip driving to Las Vegas:

• 1,888 miles
• $166 Supercharger fees
• $0.88/mile or $8.80 / 100 miles
  • Strong +20 mph, freezing, headwinds

An overnight trip from Huntsville AL to Tunica MS and back, the cheap trip:

• 240 miles each way, 480 miles total
• 50 kWh * $0.12/kWh = $6.00 full charge at home
  • add 20% before departure
  • add 80% upon return home
• 50 kWh free at Horseshoe casino
• $6.00 / 480 miles = $0.013 / mile or $1.30 / 100 miles

So when I read "Al Gore and subsidies in the same article, I get a little ill", I smile. The author is burning up his bucks and won't have extra money to waste on those who are picking his pocket while giving him a smoke enema.

Bob Wilson

 

If Florida and the US Supreme Court hadn't cheated and Al Gore had won the election, we would all be driving BEVs today.

 

What was the first hint that hypocrisy was about to permeate the post? It was probably the use of the "antiquated notion" to counter a post about side effects that are largely ignored by the extremists. Anyone who can lust after the destruction of an industry without regard for the impact on the environment is missing the boat.

And then there is this... The person who thinks that you and I should be forced to junk our 60 MPG gas guzzlers is living in an area of the country where the people would freeze in the winter if it were not for the energy provided by the oil industry both directly and indirectly. The Grand Coulee Dam provides power today, but the dam was built with tools and machines powered by oil.

And there's this... If you want to throw stones, the least one can do is to walk the walk. Living in the Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
while driving a car that is 100% dependent on oil is about as hypocritical as a zealot can be. Vehicle: 2007 Prius.

 

Would you elaborate on why you believe that? I can't remember anything of that time period that would have allowed Al Gore to push for BEVs and the infrastructure needed to support it. State of the art in 1998 was the exemplified by the EV1, the Ford Ranger EV and the Rav4 EV. Lead acid batteries powered the first versions of all three. Each of the manufacturers offered an upgrade to NiMH battery packs towards the end of the century but that offer was quickly revoked due to patent licensing problems.

As I recall, the problem was not so much that the technology was lacking, but was rather that they were still struggling with how to get a deep discharge battery that will last for as many charge/discharge cycles as was needed for the application. As I recall the mindset of the era, it was commonly held that you needed to fully discharge the NiMH batteries before charging to avoid destroying the cells via the dreaded "nicad memory" problem. They came up with better battery management just as Chevron dropped the ax by prohibiting the use of large capacity NiMH cells for autos.

Not sure what Gore could have done about that.

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_a_New_Generation_of_Vehicles

The Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles was a co-operative research program between the US government and the three major domestic auto corporations that was aimed at bringing extremely fuel-efficient (up to 80 mpg‑US (2.9 L/100 km; 96 mpg‑imp) vehicles to market by 2003.

The partnership, formed in 1993, involved eight federal agencies,[1]the national laboratories, universities, and the United States Council for Automotive Research (USCAR), which comprises DaimlerChrysler, Ford Motor Company, and General Motors Corporation.

"Supercar" was the unofficial description for the research-and-development program.[2]

On track to achieving its objectives, the program was canceled by the George W. Bush administration in 2001 at the request of the automakers, with some of its aspects shifted to the much more distant FreedomCAR program.
. . .​

Bob Wilson

 

There was a reasonable chance 9/11 might have been detected and prevented.

Bob Wilson

 

Lol, knee jerk uninformed and unreferenced Trumpian-Muskian attacks in defense of fossil fools along with location based personal attacks based on false equivalencies says alot about what your stock portfolio manager is doing for you via investments in fossil fools...

At this point maybe you want to provide some references to backup your hyperbole?

I'll go first... Lets talk about homicide charges against fossil fuel corporations that our State Attorney General who is a national leader in getting other states to sign on to his litigation is currently working on. Here's the references we provided that opened the door to submit additional evidence of crimes that will tank your fossil fool stock:

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"The combined effects of ambient air pollution and household air pollution is associated with 7 million premature deaths annually. Sources of air pollution are multiple and context specific."
Air pollution


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"Braman argued that pursuing homicide charges would have a greater impact on fossil fuel companies than the cases currently wending their way through court in part because the penalties would be steeper. Rather than paying a fine, homicide charges could open up an array of other outcomes that could materially alter how companies operate. Homicide is a catchall term that includes charges ranging from manslaughter to murder. The former is a lesser charge where death was caused without intent, while murder is reserved for cases where the defendant either had knowledge that taking a specific action could kill someone or engaged in a premeditated killing. Arkush said the fact that fossil fuel companies knew that their products worsened the climate crisis and yet continued to extract oil, gas and coal “comes extremely close” to meeting the definition of murder, though the paper lays out the case for multiple types of homicide charges. The paper also argues that the case for climate homicide has been bolstered by attribution science, which seeks to ascertain how much the climate crisis has worsened individual extreme weather events. Some studies have even been able to attribute a specific number of extreme weather deaths to the climate crisis." New climate paper calls for charging big US oil firms with homicide | Oil | The Guardian

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"Researchers believe that as the world attempts to increase the exploitation of fossil fuels in the wake of the war in Ukraine, campaigners will come under greater threats. In 2021, the year with the most recent data available, some 200 people were killed at a rate of 4 per week. There is increasing stress on natural resources globally and this is playing out as a battle particularly in the Amazon in Brazil," said Shruti Suresh, from Global Witness, who says that 85% of the killings in Brazil have occurred in this region. This is about land inequality, in that defenders are fighting for their land, and in this increasing race to get more land to acquire and exploit resources, the victims are indigenous communities, local communities, whose voices are being suppressed." Over 1,700 environment activists killed in decade - report - BBC News

 

And the Iraq War definitely would not happen, which means that ISIS would never be created, etc.

 

Exactly! There's overwhelming evidence that 9/11 was detected by US officials official prior to it happening... There's also overwhelming evidence from former Vice President Dick Cheney of Halliburton corporation as to why the attack was not prevented

 

Neat article.

I see I'm lumped in with the 21% who want their EV to be a mid-sized or large sedan.


Public recipe:

mid-sized or large sedan

$26k sticker

disappoint me with short enough range to make that price work

I'll still buy it.