Car affordability in 2022 and beyond

Totally agree with you. But I don't know any place I can move to where it makes the transportation needs less dependent on a personal car than my current situation. The only reason I am thinking of getting another car (a BEV) is just in case I have to go back to a commuting routine for my work. Other than that, I think we can manage with the current single car (Escape PHEV).

You are absolutely right about the amount of gas saved by switching to an EV. Even if I switch our Escape PHEV to a full BEV, the amount of gas saved is less than 120 gal/yr. And in our case, if the car is 100% BEV, that would mean I will end up paying about 20% more on fuel costs (electricity), so there is no saving. We are currently using about 100 gal/mo of oil for our boiler. 120 gal of gas is very small in comparison. But, in our case, switching to all-electric heat pumps will also not going to save any fuel costs. So, in the end, I am going to let the wallet decide to pick between burning oil vs running electricity. At a moment, oil wins both in the car and in heating.

 

With a hard $25k price limit, the options for a new hybrid are almost as limited as for an EV. Cars.com has listings for 111 in the country currently. The choice is a base Maverick or Corolla, plus a couple Elantras listed for under MSRP+delivery. If the budget also has to cover taxes and fees, then there is nothing.

Honestly, I'd go used before choosing most of the new ICE cars in that price range.

Finding the deals usually takes effort. How many traveled into the Northeast for the past Prius Prime?

I was commenting on range and other specs. Unless you have a limited local selection, you can get more range and other things for the same out of pocket cost with another brand. Lack of inventory of the competition might end up being a seller of the Subaru and Toyota BEV.

 

Yeah, if I live in a city alone where an app ride or public transportation is available, I would not keep a car. But, there is no way, under any circumstance, I will ever move back to a big city, or even a mid-size city. Besides, even if I can make it without a car, the rest of my family is not going to be able to do what they need to do without private transportation. Right now, my car needs are minimal. One car for me and my wife is working. For now, my wife drives more often than I. Looks like our total miles are going to about 7500 miles/year. But if I have to go back to commuting... then I have to think about what to do with my daily driver. I don't mind spending $15K on a Bolt EV even though I know the operation cost is going to be more than a very efficient hybrid like Prius. But... $20K is the max I would pay for my daily commuter. The choice is very limited BEV or ICE if new cars. I may have to go for a used Gen4 Prius Prime. With fed credit on used and state incentives, it may be doable. Although it is not likely to come anywhere close to the Bolt EV price tag.

 

I didn't say Hybrid. I said ICE. Yeah, Hybrid is going to be at least a couple thousand more than conventional ICE cars. Someone with a $25K hard limit is most likely buying either a cheap subcompact conventional ICE car or a used car. Now, it can be used BEV, especially now they qualify for Fed tax credit if purchased from a dealer. I would think it may be possible to find a used Gen4PP or other used BEV under $25K if look hard enough.

I purchased all of my PPs (three of them) and my current Escape PHEV locally at a dealer's lot on the very day I walked into their lot for $10K-$12K below MSRP after credit. As I said, if I decide to purchase a BEV, I have to purchase it in my state from a registered dealer who can offer the state incentive. No out-of-state deals make financial sense unless they are discounting $7500 off of the price on their own.

As I stated clearly "I really don't care about EV range or charge speed. So, having a more competitive performance would not make the car any more attractive to me." It simply is too expensive for a BEV which is going to be used purely as a commuter car. Yeah, sure if I have $50K to blow on a BEV, then I would pick up a Mach-E instead which is also available locally. I haven't checked Kia or Hyundai lately, but I have a feeling that they are also available. None of those BEVs are going to be within the range of my spending budget which is between $15K to $20K. Right now, the only possible BEV options are Leaf (base) and Bolt with full tax credit plus full state incentive. But Bolt is a much better car for a similar price. So much better that I just stop looking for a Leaf.

 

You could probably add some cash from the newspapers for the "a meteor took out both my cars and nothing else" story. I reckon they'd pay you enough for a fancy EV, like a Taycan or something.

Have you seen the new 2024 Sonata? It is - and I never thought I'd say this about a Sonata - a remarkably good-looking thing.

 

We had that for a while here too.

There are some small cars that are really cheerful and fun. There is also the Mirage.

 

This is for your small commuter car, rather than for something bigger?

I'm sure that, as a 34% stakeholder in the company, GM could bring over the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV if it wanted to (crash regulations permitting). It's US$4,700. Only about 100 miles of range, but it's simple and basic and doesn't have all those fancy things people spoke of not needing a few pages ago.

I think the only problem is it doesn't offer rapid charging.

 

I have seen various super cheap and small EVs popping up around the world. $14K Nissan Sakura, $16K Toyota C+Pod, or any other Kei based EV from Japan for a similar price range all appeal to me. But, none are coming to this side of the pond. There may be a few other mini BEVs that would fit in this category. But none are available locally. My requirement is that the car must be serviced locally. This requirement makes Tesla off my list. Although even the cheapest M3 is still way more than what I want to spend on a BEV.

Rapid charging is not required for daily ~50 miles of commuting and most in and near-town trips less than 100 miles. There is just not enough charging infrastructure to take the BEV out on a long trip from where I live That's why, the EV range of 300 miles or fast charging to 80% in 18 min adds absolutely no value to me.

 

If the roads traveled are low speed, there are neighborhood EVs available.

The base Aptera is $25k to $26k. Maybe it will go into production this year. There are other EV trikes out now, if you don't need over 100 miles of range.

 

Don't worry. I am not taking it as personal criticism. It is a perfectly good suggestion that works for many people. It just does not work for me. I have lived in big cities or suburbs of a big city most of my life before moving to my current location in a rural township in Maine. I just love it. There is absolutely no stress like living in a big city. And I just like the idea of having acres of natural woods right behind our house.

Overall, at least in my experience, the cost of living in a rural remote location is far less now than when we were living in a big city. This applies to almost everything we did then and what we do now. Of course, the lifestyle and family composition has changed vastly, so I can't make a direct comparison. But I really can't think of anything that would save me money by moving back to a large city now. In a city living, housing costs more, energy costs more, car ownership cost more, and food costs more. The only thing I can see saving is entertainment... but we spend almost nothing on that category now, so it is likely to increase if we are enticed to go to see a play or concert in the city. Sure there are ways to save living costs in a city, but what are you thinking that would save money by moving to a city provided the employment and income stays the same.

 

Some thoughts on how to deal with a commodity that while necessary, has become overly costly:

1. Look for alternatives.
2. Use it only when necessary.
3. Maintain it well, make it last.

 

Yeah, although very rewarding, raising kids and family can be challenging and expensive no matter where you live. We did most of raising kids in or near the city except the youngest at my current location. When I moved due to a change of job, my search for a new house was based mostly on the school system and safety besides the affordability of the house I was buying.

But on your comment, I must say, none or very little will apply to my own case and our past and current experiences. So, I guess, it all depends on the lifestyle and individual circumstances. Here the some of the points you commented on.

• medical care: We found it is usually true that medical care is better in larger cities. But better medical care usually costs more. Since a large portion of the medical cost is taken care of by the insurance, I find over all medical cost is cheaper in our current rural area.
  
• less time spent moving people around to appointments: In the city, everything is more concentrated, so yes, it is less distance traveled, but I found it was never less time for me. My last commute in a big city was 18 miles from door to door, usually taking 1+ hour during off rash hours. If I had to keep a 9-5 schedule it would be 2 hours each of commuting morning and evening. My commute at my current job is also 18 miles from door to door, but it takes 30 min each way no matter what time of the day I drive.
  
• Less time away from work for my wife and I: My wife was/is a homemaker. So, any kids or family transportation did not take her away from work. If she needed my help, it was more time-consuming and costly back in the city mainly due to the long commuting time it required for me to come home during the work day. I can do multiple trips back from work in a day now in a rural location if I need to.
• Daycare is vastly more available and of higher quality: Probably true, but for us, it is a moot point. My wife stayed home to take care of the kids. We have never, I mean not even a single time used daycare for any of our kids. I don't even remember if we ever hired a babysitter.
  
• The public schools appear to be much higher quality, and school transportation costs: My impression has been always that a big city public school system is worse than a suburban system. It is true that in a rural area, finding a good school can be challenging, but I picked my current house at a location based on the school system. School transportation was always taken care of by school bus for our kids. I don't know how much time my wife had to spend driving the kids to and from school, but if she did, I am sure she did more when we were living in the suburbs than in our current rural town.
• energy prices: In your local, it may not be different. I was comparing the energy cost of my current location and the cost at my last location near a big city. Besides, I can cut my own wood for free from our backwoods. We use to buy 6 cords of wood and had them delivered for our woodburning stove in the last house we lived near a big city.
• the living spaces within multi-tenant buildings are almost always cheaper to heat and cool: Yes, but that means living in a rental apartment/condo. Another thing I would never do. My last apartment life was when I was in college. I will not share a wall with my neighbor.
  
• groceries are cheaper in the city. Usually, more shopping options are available in the city, thus finding the same item cheaper is possible. But that requires more work and traveling in congested traffics. For non-perishable items, online shops work fine and prices are the same. For fresh produce and meat, it is far cheaper to get local produce in a rural setting from local farmers than trying to do the similar in the city. Besides, I have land to grow our own food now, which we did not have in a city.

 

Not that I have traveled extensively or lived in many places, but about dozens or two of major cities I have lived/visited in the past, I can't think of a single city in the US that had an adequate public transit system, especially if living with a large family and dogs and cats. For one thing, our disabled daughter who still lives with us can not ride public transit nor walk on her own on any street. I just don't see any way to move about with her if we do not have our own personal transportation.

If I am forced to live in a heart of a big city for some reason and I am alone, then I would probably try to get rid of a personal car. Someone living in the middle of Manhattan alone would probably not want to own a car. But if I had to take my family with me, then chances are that I will need more mobility and space than any big city in the US can offer.

By the way, when we first moved to a suburb of Boston some 30+ years ago, I tried commuting to my work in the heart of the city by using public transit. Using a commuter rail, and T system of subway and buses in the city... Yeah, it can be done. But, I still had to drive 5 miles to the rail stop and park the car there all day or have my wife drop me off or pick me up there. Then wait for the commuter rail, and once in the city, hop on the subway and/or buses to get to my work. It took 2+ hours each way. Yes, I could read or sleep on the train, but the biggest problem was that the last train left the station at 10 pm. I often had to work later than that. And the cost, there was no big saving compared to owning a car and driving to work, at least back then. And I know the situation has not improved much in the past 30+ years. One of our kids who grow up there remained and still live there. She was doing OK without owning a car for a long time... but after having a kid, they got a car. They needed it. And after having a second kid, they needed another bigger car. So, they now have two cars. Both parents work, and two kids are in childcare. They have lived in an apartment all this time. They can't afford to buy a house. But their monthly rent is almost twice my mortgage. I am sure a case like that is nothing special in a big city living.

 

2023 KIA RIO $16,750
2023 Kia Rio | Subcompact Sedan - Pricing & Features | Kia

2023 KIA RIO hatchback $17,690
2023 Kia Rio 5-Door | Sporty Hatchback - Pricing & Features | Kia

2023 KIA Forte $19,690
2023 Kia Forte | Compact Sedan - Pricing & Features | Kia

2023 KIA Soul $19,890
2023 Kia Soul | Versatile Crossover - Pricing & Features | Kia

2023 Hyundai Venue $19,650
Hyundai Cars, Sedans, SUVs, Compacts, and Luxury | Hyundai (hyundaiusa.com)

All the vehicles listed above come with a 10 year 100,000 powertrain warranty for the original owner - everything else is covered by a 5 year 60,000 warranty. Android Auto, Apple car play, Manufacturers interface all standard. Map updates free of charge. All come with safety suites. The Hyundai comes standard with 3 years normal maintenance free of charge.

The KIA RIO is my favorite and if I am forced into getting our youngest child a new vehicle it would probably be that one. It also comes in hatchback. If car pricing returns to normal - I think I could buy that through an internet buying service for less than $15,000 by negotiating and sales competition. As an example, KIA/Hyundai give all former military member $500 off if requested - you can get another $500 off by financing it and then if you want immediately paying it off with no penalty- $500 off if you are a student with good grades.

Tried to list all cars I am familiar with that cost less than $20,000 brand new.

 

For actually under $20k, there is just a couple more. The Nissan Versa, and Mitsubishi Mirage, which comes in a hatchback and sedan.