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Toyota announces a "EV-first" strategy

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Old Bear, Feb 18, 2023.

  1. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    The Wall Street Journal reports that Toyota has officially announced an "EV-first" strategy to develop a basic EV platform to be the basis of future Toyota vehicles.

    See attached PDF "Toyota-Pushes-EV-First-Strategy.pdf"
     

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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Toyotas flurry of official statements are contradictory and confusing
     
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  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Confusing for those not closely following the market or technology with regard to audience, that's understandable.

    For those who do, we saw an entire year ago that e-TNGA was to take full advantage of existing process to deliver a robust design... one that would be expensive and hampered by some legacy production approach, but it delivers upon the capabilities & reliability loyal Toyota customers are accustom too. Watch the reviews. Notice how well refined the drive is, how much praise it gets for being smooth, quiet and responsive? From those who have used the AWD in snowy conditions, they exclaim a very satisfying experience.

    What we are getting from the "EV first strategy" is an acceleration of electrification plans. The current dedicated-platform e-TNGA utilizes will be replaced with a "clean sheet" design sooner. That will bring about lower production cost, as well as increased efficiency. Knowing the next-gen motor will be rolled out on a similar timeline, that should work out really well; however, it's easy to see how hybrid strategy could make what happens in the short-term perceived at contradictory.

    With the potential from that new battery chemistry Toyota will be introducing, along with whatever shift LFP could bring about, how ICE phaseout and PHEV expansion plays a role in the bigger picture is anyone's guess. The catch is Toyota has options. What will other legacy automakers do? For example, when GM finally rolls out Equinox EV, how exactly are they going to deal with demand when the only thing available is an ICE model?

    Put another way, focus on actions rather than words. Toyota is moving their entire fleet forward.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Better late than never.
     
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  5. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    I thought that a couple of years ago, that Hydrogen Fuel Cell was the future that Toyota was promoting, while denigrating BEVs. Is the Hydrogen Fuel cell emphasis dead?
     
  6. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Soon as their fearless oligarch who was beholden to the fossil fool industry finally dies... Odds are the amount of ground they gave up to all their competitors in recent years is not something that's going to get better, but will get far worse for a while. Especially with news like this: Toyota Recalls New EV Over Risk Wheels Could Fall Off - WSJ
     
  7. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    For the most part hydrogen fuel cells were designed to allow the fossil fool industry to continue to participate by using their planet killing pollution to create "clean hydrogen," which would allow them to keep selling more planet killing pollution in a greenwashed way. Problem is the infrastructure for mass distribution of hydrogen is not only very expensive, but it doesn't yet exist. Whereas even a homeless person doesn't have much problem finding a place to charge their phone. As in EV charging infrastructure already exists everywhere and only needs to be optimized, rather than built from scratch.
     
    #7 PriusCamper, Feb 18, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Turns out, e-thna was a massive bungle
     
  9. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    What is a e-thna?

    I googled it and found nothing?
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    E-TGNA
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Well, the most resent statements from the Japanese government on energy and emission policy didn't stress it. The latest I've read from Toyota focused more on commercial truck use. Though they do have that Corolla race car they are talking about now. It isn't fuel cell; just hydrogen burning in an engine.

    Part of what was wrong with the Mirai is the same as what was wrong with E-TNGA. These are ICE platforms.. That reduces costs when all the manufacturing is set up for ICE cars. For non-ICE cars, it means compromised packaging. The Mirai is bad with all those hydrogen tanks packed into it.

    E-TNGA is modified to better work with EV batteries, but not enough to require new assembly tooling. Making EVs and ICEs on the same line does save some, when you don't need to make many EVs. It is just that the market, and competitors, were moving faster than Toyota wanted. Now they have to burn cash to catch up.

    I do wonder what Subaru would have put out if they hadn't 'partnered' with Toyota for an EV platform. They had started on one themselves.
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's what the rhetoric would have you believe. We live in a society that thinks zero-sum, where choices are binary. Having different solutions for different situations is unacceptable. Ugh.
     
  13. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Or rather the rhetoric for a workaround for avoiding the inevitable consequences while lies and bribery kick the can further down the road for a little while longer via the chair of the next UN climate conference in Abu Dhabi Oil Industry Chief, also known as head of global gaslighting for boosting oil industry profits...

    As in there's no climate problem anymore as long as chair of the next climate conference tells us that they care about climate issues and reduction in fossil fools is on its way even though "...under Al Jaber's leadership, ADNOC plans to increase its oil production to 5 million barrels a day by 2027 from 3 million." UAE Oil Exec Sultan Al Jaber Will Run COP28, Inviting Controversy - Bloomberg

    The most disgraceful humans who have ever lived will be reduced to tiny meaningless sparks compared to the total hellfire and total inferonic overheating ecological collapse of the planet we're heading towards because the most evil humans that will ever live are the ones that lead today's oil industry.
     
    #13 PriusCamper, Feb 19, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2023
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    What BEV was Toyota selling alongside the Mirai?
    Battery costs were still on the high side back then, but not a 'fuel cell is cheaper' high.

    Toyota chose not to extend the contract with Tesla for the Rav4 EV.
    The iQ EV failed before it went on sale.
    The PiP was less of an improvement over the PHEV conversions than a factory offering should have been.
    The Prius Prime almost had a small battery like the PiP, even though battery costs have been dropping since the latter came out.
    The Rav4 Prime sounds like a great PHEV. Too bad Toyota didn't secure battery supplies for the demand.
    The first BEV by Toyota went on sale last year, after the second gen Mirai came out.

    Yes, they sold BEVs in China, but China's ZEV program has higher goals than CARB, and it is a market nearly all car makers can't afford to be out of.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Choices are good, except for land yachts
     
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  16. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    I'm not sure why there needs to be a single type of fueled vehicle. There's a big difference between an over-the-road long-haul truck and a local trades-person's van. And some of use do a lot of short-trip urban driving while other people drive over a hundred miles a day just commuting. What works well for my family in Boston just doesn't make much sense for my son's family in a small rural town in the mountains of Colorado.

    Maybe there is a "Swiss Army Knife" of motor vehicle which does everything, but somehow I doubt it.

    A recent Forbes article discusses the necessity of multiple strategies if the objective is to minimize carbon emissions and meet the needs of a diverse driving public.
     

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  17. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    I tried to find/use this feature outlined in the OP. Couldn't find it on the Toyota Web site...