Featured Tesla recalled over "full self-driving"

Does the recall include a name change?

 

No, it includes a free over the air update which has probably already been made.
It is a tweak to the behavior of FSD. The OP is trying to make a bigger deal out of it than it is.

 

Leaving at 4 AM, it took me 13 hours to drive ~700 miles to the Hilton in Manassas VA. All of the highway driving was using AutoPilot. I turned off Full Self Driving (FSD) because it is too sensitive with 'nanny' alerts. I heard about the recall on PBS while driving but wanted to see their report. The problems identified:

• The FSD Beta system may allow the vehicle to act unsafe around intersections, such as traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, - I agree as left turns are most at risk and right turns can be. I've never seen a problem going straight through since I make sure we're in the correct lane. My practice is to too touch the brakes to disengage FSD and manually make left or some right turns.
• entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop, - the previous version did a 'California stop' but the current release comes to a complete stop. Then it slowly, incrementally nudges forward if it needs to turn to see if it can proceed. Impatient, I often take over and manually make the turn. Straight through is fast enough for me.
• proceeding into an intersection during a steady yellow traffic signal without due caution - I'm not seeing this as it tries to avoid treating a Yellow as a Red light and slamming on the brakes. But one driver's 'caution' is another's dilly dalling around. I have not seen a Red light passing through an intersection where there had been a Yellow. We need a hard, technical specification from the NHTSA for this, not some weak tea, mumble mouth. The requirement should also specify or restate the traffic light timing at different speeds. Every city has at least one 'malfunction junction.'
• respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits - there is one '25 mph' sign on an adjacent street that in the previous version caused the car go rapidly go from 40 mph to 25 mph. The two or three times on the current version, it has ignored that poorly mounted speed sign. The car complies with new speed limit signs but not as abruptly with braking or heavy regeneration braking as the previous version. This one more 'coasts' down to the posted speed limit.
• not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits - there is a concept of keeping up with traffic often going 5-10 mph over the posted speed limit. Is this an NHSTA 'nanny' complaint? On this trip, I did get an alarm when a traffic gaggle was about to force me to hit the brake hard. So I rapidly accelerated to avoid a potential problem and got the alarm ... I was up to 92 mph! We're going to need to understand what technical requirements the NHTSA is trying to enforce.

All in all, I'm not too concerned about this as the NHTSA as some valid observations. BUT now they need to provide engineering technical requirements with hard metrics. For example, I have no problem with inhibiting those who cruise at 85 mph or higher for more than 30-60 seconds followed by something within say 5-10 mph of the posted speed limit. I once commuted with a coworker who thought 85 mph was the minimum speed. He would not let me drive.

A simple rule like an average of no more than +/-10% of the posted speed limit for 60 seconds would work for me. Failure would disable cruise control so the driver would have to speed manually.

BTW, notice there was no mention of running down manikins being dragged across the street like the idiot does in his anti-Musk commercials. Perhaps because it is not reproducible except by overriding AutoPilot/FSD.

Bob Wilson

 

Late thought:

Tesla is bringing this on themselves because they do not have a functioning trouble ticketing system. If owners could file a problem with Tesla, they could prioritize their efforts and rapidly increase AutoPilot/FSD quality. But Tweets don't work nor any other communications system. It is easier to file a report with NHTSA and let them whack 'em with a 'clue by four.'

Actually Toyota shares the same problem ... insufficient customer feedback. Complaining in PriusChat is not a substitute to proper ISO-9000 problem reporting system. Each report is tracked, rapidly classified, and the summaries shared with the technical team supervisors.

All problem reports are accessible to the technical teams and the filer gets a 'thank you' note that it is being looked at 'but solutions make take time.' Subsequent release notes identify problems that were fixed.

Bob Wilson

ps. I mean the 2001 version of ISO-9000 that had 20 steps!

 

.... oh he knew it wasn't a big deal. It said right there in his posted OP link;

Good thing this wasn't a Toyota type lane assist "recall" - or the entire fleet of cars would have to go into the shop. Hopefully someday Toyota too will have OTA features that save a huge amount of hassle - having to waste both time & fuel going down to have work done in person maybe having to get a rental car, etc.
Thank God this was a Tesla issue.

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Did anyone note the hypocrisy of this tweet from the guy who insists on mis-naming his beta program as "full self driving" when it is not and it's driver assist software as "auto pilot" when it is not?

A heads up for anyone who has one of the recalled models. OTA updates are neat, but they encourage sloppy work when it comes to making quick fixes and the associated testing. Many companies use RST (rapid software testing) as a time saving technique where the person who fixes the flawed routine does the testing to ensure that the fix works. But they don't test the overall system to make sure that the fix did not create a new flaw. And that is how you end up with new bugs and unexpected behavior when it's just a "tweak to the behavior of FSD".

If I had a Tesla, I would not drive it for the first week or two. That will let the other customers test the OTA patches.

 

Yep I work in software and see half-assed "solutions" daily. The agile method of software project management encourages rapid iterations over getting it right the first time.

I hope the Tesla over-the-air updates have more stringent quality control than the mess I see going on at Twitter. That's a clusterf**k right there since Elmo took over.

 

Of course it encourages sloppy work. And that proof is why every other manufacturer has never had to Flash software - sitting at the dealer - on recall.

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Ah yeah...remote updates...what could possibly go wrong?

 

One of the key tell-tales for misusing the agile method is when you see in the logs that the integration testing was completed in less time than it took to install the software on the test system. For those not in the software field, integration testing for a large system should take a long time, even a day or more, even if it's automated.

 

toyota-and-lexus-models-to-get-over-the-air-updates-while-new-operating-system-is-underway

 

Well there ya go ... so much for bashing those horrible companies using OTA. Seems Toyota Lexus has seen the light.

 

In the early days of VAX/VMS we got a monthly news letter about problems discovered and possible work arounds. Every major release came with a microfiche of the VMS source code. Then someone at DEC decided this was too expensive ... and nailed the coffin lid closed over them.

Ignoring user problem reports is the fastest way to disaster. Use them and the products gets much improved.

Bob Wilson

 

The difference between Tesla and Toyota is that Tesla has a CEO who fires people when they don't comply with his every whim. Add the allure of instant updates using OTA and Combine that with statements from the CEO that promise software changes to disable safety features within 24 hours and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

That's a good sound byte, but that's all it is.

The fastest way to disaster is to rely on the customers to do testing on critical systems. DEC should have had test cases documented and should have used those cases to do unit and integration testing.If customers made trouble reports, DEC should have added those to the test cases.

The second fastest way to disaster is to over sell the capabilities of an automated system, lulling customers into a sense of complacency when using the system in a dangerous manner.

 

Toyota and most automakers covet everything Tesla is doing, and are seeking to emulate them as soon as possible.
From direct sales to manufacturing techniques to otau and more

 

I don’t believe most of them are. A couple, such as Ford & VW (Prior to the firing of the CEO) are.
The others are tryin to LOOK as if the are emulating Tesla in order to slow the bleeding.

 

GM is hoping those turn too them for components when the pressure increases.