Featured Hyundai Ioniq6 Tops 361 miles EPA and 140MPGe (4.15mi/kWh)

Apples vs. oranges.

ICE efficiency greatly varies with rpm and torque. Electric-motor efficiency varies only negligibly for our practical purposes.

Moreover, non-EV cars do not have regenerative braking, which is the main reason why they get worse city than highway mileage, as opposed to HEVs, PHEVs, and BEVs.

 

There shouldn't be a plateau. Battery degradation should be more or less linear with the number of cycles unless you changed charging habits and you are avoiding fast charging now.

It sounds like tech-savviness runs in the family.

 

But that's not a BEV. We are talking about mpge in the pure EV mode, not mpg. A nonhybrid ICE car will get a lot less mpg in the city than on the highway. An HEV should make up for most of the ICE losses in the city but not all.

 

This is incorrect.
Battery degradation is affected by both # of cycles as well as age.
Many BEV owners have noted the first 12-18 months has a larger loss, which then slows down over longer time periods.

 

Anecdotal notes tend not to mean much. I didn't see that effect with my Prius Prime.

 

BEV owners have a vested interest:




Bob Wilson

 

Motor efficiency does vary, enough that engineers can optimize one of the motor units for higher speed cruising. The Lucid Air could easily have a lower power motor on one of the axles for that purpose.

Lithium ion battery degradation: what you need to know - Physical Chemistry Chemical Physics (RSC Publishing) DOI:10.1039/D1CP00359C

Li-ion capacity loss being quick in the beginning, before leveling off for a slow rate of loss, is well known.

Did you track the amount of electricity being used for the charge during that time? The car systems can easily free up buffer to compensate for that early loss.

 

The battery chemistry and charge/discharge behavior is going to make a big difference on degradation. The prime is going to be a lot tougher on the battery than a tesla or this new long range hyundai. It is air cooled and a lot smaller, which means a lot more will be used and it is more likely to degrade from heat. In the 4 1/2 years I've had my car, I've had an indicated 8% degradation, most of it occurred the first year. We really don't know how much degradation is happening though as I don't know the buffer size and if they use some of it when the batteries degrade. I expect that age not mileage is what will degrade my battery. Bob travels a lot more miles than I do and has the standard not long range battery, so I expect miles may start eating into his battery life in a lot less time than mine.

Hyundai will start producing their EVs for north America in a new plant Georgia in 2025. I know they established contracts with sk which has a plant nearby that they can expand to build 50 Gwh of batteries per year. I expect by the time the US EV factory is in production the battery chemistry for these cars will be even better.

 

Did you run a check on each individual cell? or Modules? or the entire pack.
.

 

It is actually mileage, not the age, as long as you don't keep the battery in a low or a high SOC. Optimal storage SOC is around 30%.

 

That's a good reference.

Well-known? I am not sure about that, but it is poorly understand if you read the article.

Moreover, the charge rate, temperature, etc. will greatly modify the shape of this curve. Battery chemistry and construction will greatly affect it, too.

It looks like there are two main factors degrading the battery—solid–electrolyte interface (SEI) and lithium-metal plating on the anode. The trends in the curve are because how these two phenomena interact with each other. Fast charging will in particular speed up lithium-metal plating, which is caused by the lithium ions being pushed too fast into the anode lattice and not finding their way inside but plating on the surface.

EPA's EV fuel-economy and range tests are poorly designed anyway you slice it. They remind me their ICE tests in the past before they eventually modified and fixed them.

 

It's probably more easily understood if you travel in those circles, but Tesla owners have been graphing out range reduction for some 8 or 9 years now.



In that crowd - it has become well known.
.

 

There is hardly any data point after 100,000 miles. Again, it will very significantly with the battery type and charging habits.

It looks like some owners' batteries died after only 25,000 miles. Repeated use of fast charging? In the EV world, 80% capacity is considered to be the death of the battery.

 

Could be an older copy of the file. Here is some from 2019.
https://maartensteinbuch.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-data/

I've had a catalytic converter die before 5000 miles. Sometimes, things just fail early. That's why there are warranties.

 

They don't specify the battery chemistry. Low-energy-density/economy LFP cathodes tend to last a lot longer than high-energy-density/performance NMC or NCA cathodes.

 

It's an user opt in survey. How many Prii owners know the specific Li-ion chemistry in their car? How many of the hybrid owners know if they have Li-ion or NiMH?

The Model 3 SR/RWD used LFP in China since introduction. I guess it is the same with the Model Y there. LFP in the Model 3 started showing up outside China in 2021, but not every SR/RWD model. Haven't heard of the S or X getting LFP.

 

I think so far Toyota has only used the NMC chemistry in their lithium-ion batteries.

 

Jeez - so fight the obvious - regardless of chemistry, different graphs from different time frames show a pattern of decline faster towards the beginning. lol - ya try & help ....

 

What you quoted from me has nothing to do with the shape of the curve. I was talking about life expectancy of different chemistries.

Moreover, the shape of the curve depends on the charging rate and other factors, and there is nothing obvious about it.