Drove a Pacifica Hybrid Plug-in for a week…

8 mile trips in the cold is brutal on efficiency no matter the car,

 

Out of curiosity, did you try disabling the cabin heat in the van?

Cabin heat demand is a factor in whether or when a Prime starts its engine, no?

I get your point about being able to start cold trips electrically, but a van used to its logical conclusion could have 7 frozen butts in it without firing up an engine to provide hot water instead of murdering the whole battery to get it halfway warm.

 

My new Escape PHEV does the same thing. At ambient temp below 32F, the engine fires automatically when starting. Fortunately, there is a "trick" to fool the car to not start the engine when starting. But it takes several extra "chicken dance" steps for this work around. Unfortunately, DW wants none of the "chicken dance" steps, so she just turns on and drives with the engine running even though the trip is only a few miles long.

But comparing a PP to an SUV or minivan is probably not fair. They are not in the same class. I would have purchased Pacifica PHEV instead of the Escape PHEV if it was available and affordable. We needed a larger car to replace PP and Pathfinder Hybrid.

No, Escape PHEV does not save fuel compared to PP. But with a longer EV range, as long as we can suppress the engine firing on short trips, it will use less gasoline overall.

 

Most all Prius requires the engine to warm up when you start the car... Just because your Prius Prime doesn't do it doesn't mean all the other Prius and plugin hybrids don't do it. And a mini-van in super cold weather is much heavier than a Prius and requires more than just the battery pack for efficient operation, even for a plugin...

 

Another factor- it's a minivan. Classic uses involve moving the very young, the very old, and occasionally those in between. As a population, there's likely to be more sensitivity to cabin temperature.

Makes me wonder if Toyota set up the prime to have a higher threshold for starting the engine overall, just knowing that so many of them would be driven with most of the seats empty, and that the driver would be likelier to favor efficiency.

 

We have sold several through the hybrid shop where I work part time. They are a real pain to work on besides the cold weather issues you encountered. (Not much cold here in Tampa. )

 

If I may add AFAIK the Prime uses a heatpump , permetting EV mode operation down to 14F without ICE kicking in.

 

Yes. But for the Escape PHEV, this turned out to be a software update Ford applied to late 2022 Models. Also, the 32F threshold is automatic, the engine starts regardless of the HVAC or any other electronic settings. No heat required, still engine comes on. The earlier Escape PHEV owner did not have this happen, unless it was brought into a dealer service and the software update was applied. The fact Ford changed the threshold temperature for the engine starting indicates that not starting the engine in earlier models must have caused some problems. But I am not exactly sure what the reason was.

Yeah, there is no way SUV or minivan PHEV can compete with PP for its efficiency. Also, the philosophy is different. "Prius" has been a car for high efficiency. The fact that the car will automatically default to the EV mode is one example of such a difference. On Escape the default mode is EV-Auto. And under EV-Auto, the propensity of the engine to start is far more likely than the EV-Auto of the PP I had. I really was not expecting the Escape PHEV to be made for efficiency, but I wonder how Rav4 Prime would behave in a similar situation?

 

Good reminder.

I'd think that could account for a lot of the difference right there. I imagine it would be crazy expensive to put a minivan-sized heat pump in that bus.

 

The "chicken dance", LoL. Love it!

 

The MPG would be infinite, but the miles per kWh would take a nose dive.

It is a PHEV, it will use the engine when that is the best option. The Prius Prime having a heavy EV use mode is a quirk for the North American market. EV mode in Europe is our EV Auto. Their EV 'only' mode, EV City, flat out states it will fire up the engine when flooring it.

Fiat didn't choose to have the ICE come on in the cold to piss off drivers. Neither was the lack of driver control over the system designed that way; it was to keep things system for their consumer base. The Pacifica hybrid does not have a heat pump. Those are still relatively expensive for cars.

Transaxle fluid not warming up?
Dry out the motor oil?

 

My pip has no heat pump, and the engine rarely runs in cold weather

 

This post is probably neither here nor there in many respects. I spoke with a Chrysler plugin minivan owner 4 or 5 years ago at a charger where we were both plugging in. The three things I remember from the conversation were he was excited to mention the minivan got 38? ev miles of range, it charged to full
SOC in 2 hours and he wasn't worried at all about the battery lifespan, he said he was going to trade it in after 2 years. To each their own and thanks for your review @Northerner

 

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Not exactly .... Trigger is 15°. But 32° is when you run defrost and or heater. Ours is in the heated garage so we can typically drive a good 24 (vs 33) miles before all the electricity is used up in freezing weather - or until the thermostat sees it's below 15°

Yes - many other PHES do better in cold weather since they incorporate a heat pump.
Using Gas & Electric winter & summer we average about 40 mpg. That's based on 25 MPG in Sub-Freezing temperatures and 60° in the summertime.
YMMV turning on how long most of your trips are as well as weather.
But don't forget even the Prius can get mileage in the twenties on short trips in Alaska. So much more a 5000 lb vehicle.
.

 

I wish I know the reason, but so far I have not found it. The fact they did not do the total recall on the previous models but implemented this update on newer models seems to suggest that this is not a 100% critical issue, but I would like to know if it's OK to keep forcing the engine to stay off when it is below 32F. For one thing, the electric motor in Escape PHEV is not as strong as Rav4Prime, for this reason, even when the temperature is above 32F, and the car is on EV Now mode (pure EV) with plenty of battery, it asks for permission to turn the engine on. So, yeah, unlike PP, it is very hard to keep the car happy with electricity only.