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A station can finally sell hydrogen by the kg in LA

Discussion in 'Fuel Cell Vehicles' started by austingreen, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    California Gets Its First Hydrogen Station That Can Actually Sell Fuel
    From looking at this station though unsubsidized hydrogen looks like it would cost much more than $10/kg.
    That should allow for around 12 fast 5kg fill ups a day. What if the storage is empty and you pull up? It probably will take over an hour. Still this is much better than the UC irvine biogas generated hydrogen station.

    What did it cost?
    Cal State Los Angeles joins the Hydrogen Highway
    At 60kg/day every day for 20 years just the fixed cost would take $10.27/kg, then you need to add the costs of 70kwh of renewable electricity and maintenance. Even at only $0.05/kwh (prices are much higher in california) that is $3.50 totally add to $13.77 /kg. Does anyone think maintenance is zero or the station will last more than 20 years serving only 12 cars a day?

    So here is the question? We know its possible but very expensive to make renewable hydrogen. Why not while the DOE pays R&D on that do the experiment on much cheaper natural gas hydrogen. That was only $2.5 million for a station that could fill 100 vehicles in 1 day, but more expensive hydrogen would need to be trucked in. If it fails you have wasted $2M less on a station that can service 7x the cars. It seems california is making this experiment much more expensive than it needs to be.
     
    #1 austingreen, Jan 26, 2015
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    now all they need is customers. Anybody? Anybody? Ok... how 'bout, "a" customer ?

    I hope the station attendants have a "real" job.
     
    #2 hill, Jan 31, 2015
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what, you want me to build a zeppelin?:cool:
     
    #3 bisco, Jan 31, 2015
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  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Oh the state of clifornia will buy some.
     
    #4 austingreen, Feb 1, 2015
  5. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Where do you think you are? New Jersey? Stick your card in the slot and pump it yourself.
     
    #5 JimN, Feb 1, 2015
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Someone's never been to Oregon apparently
    .
     
    #6 hill, Mar 1, 2015
  7. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Renewable energy is expensive but H2 through electrolyzer with renewable is going to be very expensive.

    It will be clean and it'll refuel fast but the station is at infancy. There are many economical ways to generate hydrogen but I see why they want to start with the cleanest and hardest approach.
     
    #7 usbseawolf2000, Mar 16, 2015
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    An old thread, but I didn't think this factoid needed a new one.

    In mid January, hydrogen was at $26.75 a kg.
     
    #8 Trollbait, Feb 3, 2023
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Whole sale or retail?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #9 bwilson4web, Feb 3, 2023
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    #10 Trollbait, Feb 3, 2023
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  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    So given the rule of thumb that 1 kg of hydrogen is ~ 1 gal of gasoline, that would be about $25/gallon?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #11 bwilson4web, Feb 3, 2023
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Well, less if you account for the relative efficiencies of the cars. The energy content of the kg and gallon are close enough to call the same here, but a FCEV goes two to three times the distance on a kg than an equivalent ICE car on a gallon. That puts the price of the hydrogen in the $8 to $12 range of a gallon of gas when talking cost per mile.

    California's gas price is $4.52 today.
     
    #12 Trollbait, Feb 3, 2023
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  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Let's see camry hybrid versus mirai -
    camry hybrid get 46-52 mpg (52 is the le version)
    mirai is 64-72 miles/kg (72 is the le version)

    Le to LE the mirai goes 39% farther than the camry hybrid, so it would need hydrogen to be $6.30/kg to be competitive there, but the camry is less expensive to buy, accelerates faster, has a much bigger trunk and can drive anywhere in the country, the mirai, is severely limited.
     
    #13 austingreen, Feb 3, 2023
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I was giving the Mirai the benefit of the doubt in people buy more ICE Camrys than hybrids.
     
    #14 Trollbait, Feb 3, 2023
  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Its 2023 there should be no doubts that the mirai can't sell in any quanity in north america. What was toyota supposed to be making 30,000 of these a year by now. In reality with the high price it should be compared to phevs
     
    #15 austingreen, Feb 3, 2023
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It's a failure compared to BEVs. I didn't feel like kicking the Mirai when its down today.

    Toyota is now playing around with liquid hydrogen in its race car to improve range. I think they'll even have trouble convincing the Japanese government to pay for converting existing stations.
     
    #16 Trollbait, Feb 3, 2023
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