If it is not ev it is not planet friendly?

It was too late the day the first man stood up on two feet and decided he wanted more out of life. Been steamrolling ever since. Doesn't matter how hard we try or how many cubic miles of cash gets spent, we're not going to beat the desires of 5 billion people (and counting) that will forever want more and more and more. At least not with current or near future technology.

 

That’s the elephant in the room.

 

^ ^ #21 lol - if I wasn't lol I be crying. ie; King Crimson "In the court of the Crimson King"

 

shhhh - it's a secret - they are making synthetic oil
OPEC
who has the skinny?

 

You mean 8 billion people (and counting)?

 

some say 5, some say 10, etc... only those that believe the numbers broadcast still hold to the current figures.

 

How can we mass consume our way out of a mass consumption based problem?

 

Guess I won't visiting be TJ's anytime soon.

Let's say the abiogenesis theory of petroleum formation is correct, and we never have worry about it running out. What do we do with all that CO2?

The issue isn't in how the oil was made. The issue is in the fact we are taking carbon encased deep within the earth, and releasing it into the atmosphere as a gas. If humanity manages to survive the effects to our health and cognitive ability from high CO2 levels, we will eventually turn the Earth's atmosphere into that of Venus.

 

A major new "rare earth" deposit was just announced:

Sweden’s new rare-earth metal find likely big deal for Western consumers

News some time back suggested that a slightly larger supply is available in Afghanistan, a $Trillion (at older prices) treasure trove for whoever is able to develop it. It would probably require foreign assistance, which would most likely come not from us, more likely from someplace that already controls most of the world market.

 

My strategy is along those lines. I've been more planet friendly driving my old 20+ year old Subarus than I was when I had my Prius by minimizing driving. Checking my Fuelly, I purchased 59.9 gallons of gasoline in 2022. Doing the calculations in the video below for CO2 emissions, my total CO2e from driving in 2022 was 600 kg. (10kg CO2e/gallon*60gallons=600 kg). And I have created no new emissions from causing a new car to be produced. (Or you could divide up the approximate 9,000kg emissions produced in/before 1996 creating my 1996 Subaru by 26 years to get 346kg emissions per year from making that car... and decreasing every additional year I keep the car.)

Someone buying a new Tesla Model 3 would and driving 10,000 miles in a year would be causing 10,400kg CO2e from the production of the car, and then about 0.125 kg/mi for each mile driven. Driving emissions for a 10,000 mile year in the Tesla Model 3 would produce about 1,250 kg CO2. My 2022 driving emissions in my 1996 Subaru is lower than someone driving a Tesla Model 3 5,000 miles.

My answer to the title of the video, "Is keeping your old car better for the environment?" is YES.

 

Sometimes the old car is no longer road worthy. Then what? Buy an old, used car? Someone had to buy it new in order for it to be available. Is it better for those buying new to get an ice or hybrid, or some type of plug in.

The former have a lower production cost in terms GHG emissions, but those are much higher from fuel use. They will likely remain high, or even increase as petroleum sources get harder to reach or process. The plug ins have the higher production cost, but the fuel use results in lower overall emissions over the car's life time. That can even get better with the grid shifting to renewables.

 

And in the middle, hybrids. For the present?

 

I put them with ICE. Yes, they have lower emissions from fuel use than the ICE. They also have a higher production emission than ICE. Probably better to replace old ICE car with a hybrid than another ICE, but probably better still to do so with a plug in.

Most cars will be on the road 8 to 12 years, and will go at least 100k miles. Keeping a old car going forever will reduce its manufacturing cost to zero for the yearly accounting. Eventually, it will be like keeping the old fridge in the garage. Yes, you avoided the cost of buying new, but the cost of running it will exceed those savings.

 

As of today there is no excuse to buy/use a vehicle that does 30mpg (or less) - there are plenty of hybrid vehicles in all shapes and forms out there that achieve markedly better fuel economies (for their size and shape) or are PHEV or BEV. If one doesn't have reliable access to a plug, the least one can do is getting a (real) hybrid. And not just from Toyota.

Buying an old style ICE vehicle today, assuming the budget is there to get hybrid technology or better, is the worst choice the average driver could do today. Yet I see, in the USA where I currently live, people getting brand new 10mpg crossovers, SUVs, and pick-up trucks "on purpose" to get the kids to school, buy milk at the store, and go to the mall. Using the vehicle for what is built for, supposedly, i.e., haul along your 15 kids and the whole house, probably once a year.
In the meantime I see single drivers all merrily spewing badly burned gas while queuing up in the tens, at Chick-fil-A or Starbucks, because too lazy to park and walk in to get their (questionable) food fix. When gas prices go up, it is Biden's fault, rather than your own buying a crap vehicle with horrible fuel economy. And clearly it doesn't hurt their wallet enough, since they idle their vehicles to their heart's content. A lot of hypocrisy out there. A lot. (and not just in the USA, mind you).

Let's not forget - you can get a new Toyota 2023 Corolla that does 53/46 mpg for little more than 23k$. If you really need a vehicle to go from A to B and are honest with yourself, there is absolutely no reason to get something else. And you will even save money doing so. And if you have kids, you get a Sienna hybrid at about 36k$ that does 36mpg. Heaps more than any other box out there.

 

As the years go on, it seems like EV's are the joke that they were always said to of been. "I hated Tesla and Elon Musk, before it was cool to hate Tesla and Elon Musk" - Matthew Mcconaughey

Remember, if we all switched to EVs, it's only a splash in a puddle. Aka, it doesn't really matter.

 

meh it aint so simple.

EVs produce their own slew of environmental problems. Lithium mining and battery production are NOT good for the environment.

Also, good alternatives to EVs do exist. There can be fuel cell cars etc.

Finally, you just need to be aware of the historical moment we are at. The entire grid is NOT yet clean-energy-sourced. And the fact is there are few good EV vehicle choices. Theres the Tesla and that’s about it. In a few years the best teslas of today will be obsolete. It wont be undrivable but the tech is changing so rapidly that few will want it anymore. Having a car that is obsolete in 3 years is not good for the environment

this is where the Prius comes in

 

10 year old teslas are not yet obsolete

what is the promise of fuel cells?

where can i get and etc car?

 

It's not that hard to decide to keep an old car road worthy. I mean, look at Bring a Trailer. My '96 Subaru Legacy that I've had since 2000 is beat up and has some rust, but it didn't go much more than 1,000 miles last year, and the engine/trans are super healthy. My '03 Legacy, that I bought for $2100 in 2019 sight unseen off the internet, is pristine, rust free/leak free, new KYBs, performance tires, mechanically perfect. I jokingly (but maybe serious; check back in 40 years) plan to sell it back to Subaru USA for their museum (like a Radwood guy did with a high-miles Gen 1 Legacy) when I die because it looks and drive great already, but getting in better and better shape and will look and drive like it just rolled out of the showroom by then.

Someone had to buy the old cars new but keeping it from the wreckers is a good thing for low mileage drivers like me. For one, the alternative is to create a new car to be built, which is going to be about 10,000 kg CO2e for a smallish car. That's 17 years of my CO2e from driving my ICE car at last year's consumption just to produce an EV before putting any miles at all into the EV.

Anyway, it was implied, but the keeping the old ICE car is better for the environment is the result of that calculation for my situation, not anyone else's. I've already made a lot of life choices from when I was a kid to now decreasing my consumption of material things and energy (from never accepting a ride to school as a kid from my mom, even in the rain as a kid... to working at a low-paying environmental consulting job for almost a decade mainly because I could run/bike ski commute and never once drove my car there). I'm not going to save the world with my individual choices, but it's part of my personality. Also my personality is pretty extreme frugality, so no EV is going to be affordable for me until they get to $5K-$10K used, and long-term (decades) usable at that point that like my ICE cars with no battery longevity concerns. I'm more likely looking to replace my '96 Subaru with a Gen 4 Prius hybrid when it drops down to $5K-10K (Prime is out because battery pack is $10K, and by the time it drops to $5K used, that battery pack will be dead).

If you drive low miles like me (or Mendel), do the calculations in the video and figure out which is actually better for the environment at your yearly mileage.

 

Transportation is the largest sector of carbon emissions in the US, and cars are nearly half of that. Which is around 833 million metric tons of CO2. Even with today's mix of sources for electricity, EVs will greatly reduce that.

Globally, FCEV cars sell less than noplug Prii in the US. There are fewer options than plug ins, and they cost more. While that could improve, it is the hydrogen that is the hold up. The infrastructure and green hydrogen is expensive. A kilogram of hydrogen in California is now around $20. Over 4 times the price of gasoline, while the FCEV is about 2.5 times more efficient as a comparable ICE car.

Most of the hydrogen comes from fossil fuels. When it comes from natural gas, a Mirai emits as much CO2 as a hypothetical natural gas Camry hybrid.

It isn't like extracting petroleum is a clean process. As the easy to get stuff runs down, we'll shift more towards the harder stuff, like tar sands. Over time the carbon emissions for making gasoline will increase. Carbon emissions for making electricity have been dropping in the US.

There Leafs and Volts on the road that are over 10 years old. They may be less desirable than new, but then most people would want a new car over an old one. Say there is an advance in EVs that would make old ones obsolete in terms of tech; the cars won't be. Their value may drop, but that just makes to more accessible to those that can't afford a new EV.

 

All 8 billion don't drive cars. 3 billion of them live off of less than $2 per day. The next billion make less than $850 per year. Those that make more than $41,000 per year are in the top 3% of the richest people in the world.

This isn't a humankind problem, it's the elite rich people's problem.