Featured Canada wants 20% of Auto Sales to be Zero Emission by 2026

'wanting it' .... versus 'legislating it' .... versus 'law changed just prior to the time it's getting too near to be practical'
.

 

Learn to walk before running. Get electrified vehicle sales at 20% before attempting that feat with exclusively EVs.

 

The Canadian proposal includes bevs, phevs, and fuel cells. I doubt fuel cells will work for more than 0.1% of the Canadian population ;-) but phevs definiely can. PHEVs get less than a full credit as a bev, but 20% is only a difficult number because auto companies and dealerships will have artificially high prices to take advantage of the mandate/subsidy.

 

PHEV with a minimum 50 mi EV range works for me.

My former BMW i3-REx worked great.

Bob Wilson

 

PHEVs with much smaller range works for other people. For many, 50 miles is way overkill. There is nothing special about the 50 mile threshold. If such a threshold was to be proposed, it should be based on a statistic... For example, a PHEV should be subsidized if it allows 50% of commuters to commute on electricity alone.

 

I can see a lot of PHEV sales, and owners that never plug them in. For various reasons, ranging from “just don’t care”, through various “only have street parking”, to condo owners with assigned underground parking but facing onerous charger outlet install fees and ongoing monthly “subscription fees”.

 

Actually, there is. 37 miles fulfills average daily driving need. Taking into account cabin-heating demands during winter months (worse time of year for traffic & emissions), you're covered by that capacity. Having the gas-engine rarely ever run, even under those most demanding circumstances, is how we silence even the most staunch naysayers. You have that gas-engine as a backup, rendering BEV arguments moot, while at the same time confirming electric alone viable for every type of owner... 100% of commuters.

 

Geez John, some people have hangovers this morning…

 

One reason people are not be plugging in their PHEVs is that gas is way too cheap (considering its impact on the planet). Carbon tax should actually reflect the damage something does to the planet and this problem will take care of itself. And of course, corporate-owned PHEVs often don't get plugged in because the employees can claim gas expense but cannot produce a receipt for their electricity usage.

 

People are overly concerned about the engine never coming on while the battery is charged. I find is strange. The engine SHOULD unlock full power of the vehicle if it's wanted by the driver. If my PHEV's engine fired up twice per day while I merge onto the highway, it wouldn't bother me. My commute would be 98% electric instead of 100%. At that point, we're splitting hairs.

 

That's unless the car is Escape PHEV. It has exactly "37 miles" of EPA-rated EV range, but unfortunately, it lacks the efficient heat pump or the stricter EV mode use programming. The car will start the engine any time the battery has been cold-soaked below freezing. We've had the car just 1 month now. Albeit most of the trips taken in the last 500 miles or so on the odometer were less than 37 miles per trip with a full battery capacity. I have already used a half tank of gasoline. My previous Prius Prime did much better in keeping the car in 100% EV mode in the cold morning down to 14F or colder.

Not all PHEVs will perform equally well under your assumption.

 

The assumption is that a mandate will have strict criteria, raising the bar as a minimum for all PHEV. We have seen that with ZEV requirements and tax-credit proposals already. A few years from now when those decisions will be made, people will be better educated.

For me, I have been taken aback by how poorly informed people have been about winter's impact. There is has been such an obsession with driving-range and charging-speed that the most obvious attribute of EV operation... efficiency... has been seriously overlooked... to the point of neglect. Just squeezing in more battery to compensate for efficiency shortcoming isn't a real solution. When it comes to how battery-packs are thermally managed in below freezing temperatures and heat-pump effectiveness threshold, you would think by now discussions were commonplace. Instead, many are seeing those topics for the first time.

It really puts technology awareness into perspective. PHEV are far from dead and Toyota isn't really behind as they have been portrayed. This is basically just the next stage beginning, where industry has proven technology but no good implementation plan yet... hence a consideration of government mandates.

 

That's a great example. We'll see an attitude change. Remember years back, the introduction of phone-apps as a means of keeping tabs on the status of your vehicle? As time progressed, new features have been added. Now, there are digital keys and remote parking. It's not too far-fetched to imagine mandates being accounted for by tracking vehicle operation. Credits will be earned by actual real-world usage, rather than just vehicle sales.

Having that data will help with concerns too, like gas use. A well informed owner won't fill the tank completely. The car could tell them what minimum is required to cover an upcoming duration. It's like being able to see your travel history. Much can be learned by looking back at a one's own timeline. Notice how range-anxiety can be addressed in the same manner.

 

I can only offer personal experience:

• +10 mi work commute each way - shorter distances were bike, bus, or walking range. But +20 miles is a daily marathon and requires powered transportation.
• 2x daily work range needed for shopping and quality of life - the extra EV range also supports what we work for such as food and entertainment.

My choice of 50 mi minimum comes from my 72 mi EV range BMW i3-REx experience. It was not uncommon to park with 5-20 mi spare EV range before overnight charging.

The 25 mi EV range of our Prius Prime with a 20 mi daily work, round trip, commute was a big fail. The Prime ICE continued to clock miles several days each week and burn gas. In contrast, the BMW would run the ICE for 15 min every 60 days if we didn’t go out of town.

Bob Wilson

 

Can't they just cap 2026 retail petro fuel sales to 80% of 2022s? People will figure it out.

 

Having a PHEV that has the ICE run to supply heat in the winter gives me a different take on ICE running.

When our PHEV engine turns on I see it as a way of extending the all electric range of the PHEV. Battery electric energy is not wasted on driving a heat pump or on electric heat. The ICE runs at idle using almost no gas ( the car is rated 50 mpg) warming the coolant to heat the vehicle and excess energy is used to charge the battery. A win-win situation. the Ice turn off from idle when the coolant is warm and the back on when the coolant temp drops. It uses a miniscule amount of gas and keeps the gas engine exercised in case it is needed. I don't agree with the all or nothing approach to running the ICE in a PHEV. You also use components that are already on the vehicle without complicating things by adding additional expensive components that can fail. A belief that the ICE should never run when electric power is available is a very narrow way of thinking.

I might add that since the PHEV battery is in the conditioned part of the vehicle ( under the rear seat and under the luggage false floor) the heating also eliminates much of the range loss due to cold weather that other electric vehicles suffer from.

 

If I was doing a commute with PHEV think I’d intentionally run hybrid mode one day a week, get the engine fully warmed up.

FWIW, apart from a few lapses, my work commute over the years was public transit, mostly buses , then a commuter train when it became available.