Winter tires saved the day

It doesn't help that each state has uses quite different terminology, in addition to having different rules.

When Oregon posts "Chains Required", it refers to commercial and other heavy vehicles, not light passenger vehicles. The closest Washington equivalent is "Traction Tires Required", which refers to light vehicles, but also means "chains required for heavy vehicles". California's closest equivalent is called R-1.

Washington's "Chains Required" (except 4WD/AWD) appears equivalent to Oregon's "Conditional Closure" and California's R-2.

Washington's "Chains Required on All Vehicles" (including 4WD/AWD) appears equivalent California's R-3. Oregon doesn't appear to have a direct equivalent.

OR: Oregon Chain Law | TripCheck - Oregon Traveler Information
WA: https://wsdot.com/travel/real-time/mountainpasses/tiresandchains
CA: Chain Controls / Chain Installation | Caltrans

Each state also differs in when vehicles must carry chains even when not required to be wearing them.

 

My feedback: Need? No. Good to have in your preparedness kit? Yes.

The fact that you don't see anyone else using them in your area, is a reasonable hint that you don't "need" them. This would be a function of your particular weather, topography, local public road grooming and closure practices, and local foul weather driving norms. Chains won't help when roads get closed when or before chains are needed.

If you are going off the public groomed roads into ungroomed areas where getting stuck or sliding off is a significant risk, then chain desirability rises sharply. Or where sudden winter squalls are common and services are sparse.

They would also help for unprecedented conditions, provided the authorities don't close and block the roads you want to use. Though if you are lucky and better equipped than them, you might be able to run the roadblocks and they may not be able to catch you. But this will fail if they suspend plowing operations and you lack needed ground clearance. Based on last weekend's news reports, it seems that lots have people did try to drive during closures or bans, but failed, getting stuck and trapped.

If you come out this way in winter, to the Rockies and beyond, and would prefer traveling whenever the roads are open vs hunkering down someplace warm and waiting for weather to abate, then do get chains. If you prefer to wait in some warm lodging, then chains are more optional, depending on how you wish to provision your preparedness kit.

 

If I find an After-Christmas sale on Autosock, I may buy it... otherwise, I will keep watching for the sale. It is selling for $110 retail and slightly less at $96 at Amazon. I guess I only need a pair of them for a car to be installed on the rear tires? Is that true for FWD cars? There seems to be no selection for the Autosock brand. For my tire size 225/65r17 or 225/60r18, this is the only one they recommend. Passenger AutoSock 697

If not Autosock, then I am overwhelmed by the choices of the chains or other alternative traction devices on the market. I have no idea which one will fit and is good for the purpose. There seems to be a very wide price range as well. Here is a copy of the manual for my car (22 Escape). It seems, that I will have to pick a low profile device with 10 mm or less in diameter. I think most conventional "heavy-duty" link chains would be thicker than this?

Our area really dodged the Xmas blizzard of 2022. We were at the leading edge of the system feeding the warm air into the vortex. Ended up receiving 70+mph gusts but the temperature was unseasonably warm into the 50s. It was an all-rain event, with flash freezing after the system passed and the temperature plummeted in a few hours. A large number of residents lost power, but we did not lose it in our house. I was prepared to hook up to the portable generator but didn't have to. A subdivision just down the road seems to have lost power, and I just saw three utility crew trucks going down the road for restoring the power. They must have had no power for 5 straight days.

I have no plan to travel to the Wild West. I have been to CA several times for meetings but all by air. The furthest west I traveled by car was to the western edge of Dakota when I was living there. No mountains, so no snow chains. I didn't even have winter tires on my car, although it got brutally cold in winter and while traveling, I encountered ground blizzards often. The ground blizzard happened in Dakota's flat land with powdery snow on the ground. A gusty wind blew unhindered causing blizzard conditions. Yeah, driving on I-94 from Fargo to Bismarck in winter, I often encountered sudden zero visibility blizzard conditions on the road while the sky above was blue and sunny. Visiting Alaska was one on my bucket list, but I don't think it will happen. All and all, I will probably never need to use chains on my car. LOL

 

No matter how snowy conditions are, I’ve got a hunch I’d encounter some bare spots, which are bad for chains. Too, I figure, if it’s bad enough that chains are totally warranted, I should not be on the road.

and, I’ve got lousy circulation: by the time I wrestled them on, my fingers would shatter.

 

Sal,

the writeup on chain use appears a bit old as it assumes that the vehicle is a rear wheel drive.

JeffD

 

Yep, no argument there. Heck, I try not to drive when it's raining or dark. If snow is remaining on the road, I am most likely not driving until it is clear and dry. But still, there may be a time and place and circumstances that I have to venture out to the wild west of deep snow where dedicated snow tires alone are not enough. For that slim chance, I would like to be prepared.

But looking at the photo from the Autosock website copied below... I really have to wonder if that thin layer of "pantyhose-thingy" covering the tread surface of the dedicated winter tire is going to give additional traction? According to the list of approved alternative devices for snow chains fuzzy posted somewhere above in this thread, the Autosock was the best alternative. Considering that $100/pair price tag, and knowing for all practical purposes, it is a single-use device, I am still wondering if I should buy one or not???

 

Yes, I did find the information on the FAQ on the Autosock website. They recommend installing it on the driving wheels. I currently drive a 2022 Escape PHEV FWD, so only front tires need them. They do suggest putting on all 4 on AWD vehicles. Now, I wonder, would it give better traction if put on all four on FWD or RWD cars?

 

Another part of the local gauge IMO is, how many vehicles one sees either abandoned or ditched on the side of the road, especially the first few snows of the season.

What's the diff between LLR / Summer tires and truck/suv oversized / snows.

 

I got Autosocks for the Camry, but the number of times I have to drive in poor winter conditions is zero to two times a year. The rest of the season, the roads are clear enough that winter tires can't be justified. My Autosocks were for use on all season tires. As long as you aren't racing around on them, they should lest several thousand miles on dry pavement, but the ease of installation and removal makes that harder to justify.

They might be a little better than winter tires, but completely cover the tread, so don't augment the tires, but supplants them. Chains and alternatives that leave tread exposed should work as an augmenter. Like having studs.

With snow tires, I'd pass on the Autosocks. For the just in case stuck in a blizzard, I'd look for something like the zip ties Bob got. Lower cost, weight, and space in the back

 

Really? The Autosock web page says they are reusable, but I thought that was true if driven a few miles on fresh soft snow only. It just does not look that durable.

The only reason I considered Autosock was because of the information @fuzzy1 posted in this thread. Looks like at least in the state of WA, it is the only approved alternative traction device for all classes of vehicles. You are probably correct in that since I have already spent close to $1000 on a new set of winter wheels and tires for our new Escape PHEV, I probably do not need anything else.


12 years ago before I experienced my first snow tires, I would have said no to snow tires. Simply because it was too costly. But after having them on all of our cars and driving on snow on a few occasions, I am not going back to driving on snow with all-season tires. Sure it can be done. I drove far longer winter road distances without snow tires and did not have a major accident. But that was then. Even though the occasions for driving a car on a snowy day have diminished for me, it is still not 0. Now at my age, my risk tolerance has also diminished. I do not want to get caught unprepared.

 

I'm pretty sure your snow tires meet Washington's requirement when they call for traction tires. Sounds like the conditions under which they call for chains happen mostly up in the mountain passes.

For conditions in which snow tires aren't enough, I'd look into something that would leave the tire tread exposed. Unless you are planning to be towing in snow, any of the alternatives for Washington will work with the Escape.

 

I just watched this video. It compared the times it took to go up a snow covered hill, but not a deep snow, of three traction aid devises. The bench mark was 4wd SUV with AS tires. On FWD Civic, Autosock beats the performance of snow chain.

They did not compare it to a performance of dedicated snow tires. But if snow chain is better than snow tires alone as inferred by the chain law requirements in some states, then Autosock is also better than snow tires alone. At least on low speed traction test on going up a snowy hill.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

In places where it stays cold for extended periods, and the pavement stays clear because new snow stays dry and powdery and doesn't turn to ice before getting plowed or blown off the road. The colder below freezing, the better. Regular tires still perform well enough when contacting clear dry pavement. It is the transition zone around freezing that gets most hazardous.

Remember also that solar heat can warm pavement surfaces enough to allow traffic to turn snow to ice even when the surrounding fields are still powdery and drifting. And in places like my lowland region, there is enough heat in the ground for the first snows to melt from the bottom up for several days, causing severe icing for a while.

With a single set of chains or alternative, it always goes on the drive wheels. Chains all around do even better on 4/AWD, but I rarely see that on the road, except the road grader snowplows and front end loaders. On dad's farm, one 4WD feed truck and the ATV are fully chained all winter, but those are for field use, not the road.

Chains all around a RWD/FWD would give better total control for braking and steering, but not better propulsion. That said, I never see anyone do it, the additional benefit doesn't seem worth the effort.

Several thousand miles? I haven't asked around for anyone with experience, but would have guessed just dozens of miles.

 

I don't think you can infer that from the state laws. Going by those, chains on non-snow tires is equivalent to having snow tires. When the chains required is in effect though, it seems that doesn't imply chains plus snow; the chains plus non-snow meet the requirement.

I would think chains plus snow would be better, if the chains aren't something like Autosocks that completely cover the tire's rubber. Some snow tires need the rubber to contact the snow or ice for best effect.

Reviews at the time I purchased gave to impression they lasted much longer than the zip tie type I was also looking at. They were at least reusable as long as your were gentle with them, which is how you should be driving in the conditions they are needed.

 

My take is that chain (or Autosock) on the snow tire is the same as the chain (or Autosock) on the non-snow tire and gives better traction than the snow tires in extremely hazardous road conditions. But the chain is very inconvenient and not suitable to drive on dry pavement or at higher speeds. So, for less treacherous road conditions, when a chain (either on snow or non-snow) is not required, the snow tires are better.

The problem is that for many non-western states, there is never a time chain is required. This leaves the judgment to use chain or not totally up to a driver's discretion. And I have no idea when it is better to put a chain (or Autosock) over the snow tires.

 

Have you ever been in a situation where you were still sliding even with snow tires?

I've been in enough snow that is an issue with all seasons. Just not enough to justify getting snow tires. That's why I got Autosocks for the Camry. I don't plan on getting them for the Outback, nor snow tires either.

If you have never felt like conditions were too much for your snow tires, and you can choose to stay home in worse conditions, I wouldn't bother with chains or alternatives.

 

NO. Not with dedicated snow tires. But I certainly have with AS tires.

Yeah, as @fuzzy1 pointed out, most likely I don't need it, since I already invested in the dedicated snow tires. But it may be still a good thing to have for preparedness. I have never used the spare tire that I carried around for 5 years in my PP. But having it was insurance for me, and I felt prepared.

We really lucked out of the storm last week, but seeing the videos of what happened to people in Buffalo, I thought it may be a good idea to have chains or Autosock in the back of my car... just in case. Then again, in a storm as bad as the one that hit Buffalo last week, chains or Autosock may not be much help either.

 

You're assuming those people in Buffalo had winter tires installed, or ones just not too worn.

If this a case of having something in the car just in case, the zip tie alternative will be lower cost.

 

Yeah, I don't know if they all had snow tires or not, but even if they did or have had chain or Autosock on, the amount of snow that came down was too rapid for the plow to clear, I don't think it would have helped much having good traction if the 2 feet of snow on the road and car in front of you is stuck and no way to turn around.

I was caught in a very bad snowstorm once during commuting home in MA. Initially, I was on my usual local surface road, but the road was totally jammed and traffic not moving, so I decided to take a side street and got on the MassPike (I-90), thinking Mass DOT sure would have plowed the pike first before plowing the surface roads. Well, they were trying but not succeeding. I got stuck in a long traffic jam. And once on the MassPike, there is no way to turn around or even get off the road until the next exit which was my usual exit. They did not close the road, but it took me 6 hours to drive home which usually took 1 hour. And at that time, I did not have winter tires or traction devices on my car, but that would have not helped me get home quicker.

 

Daughter had to drive from the Minneapolis city center area to Prior Lake ( around 30 miles each way ) all winter last winter in the Prius C. Put on a good set of snow tires, and they turned the little Prius C into a lean mean snow machine. A couple scary moments when she got caught in a storm or two, but the entire winter was uneventful.

WIth that said, thank god she is in North Carolina now. Let's just say it is a parents job to worry about their kids, and winter driving of that magnitude doesn't help that situation.