Suddenly getting misfires on all four cylinders

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by wrench, Sep 17, 2022.

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  1. GregC1979

    GregC1979 Active Member

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    The 2015's are not exempt from Head Gasket issues, which relates to the cause being more than just clogged EGR's from oil burning. The solution is much deeper inside.
     
    #101 GregC1979, Dec 22, 2022
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  2. GregC1979

    GregC1979 Active Member

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    I've seen head gasket failures anywhere between 75k and up to 250k some with fully clogged EGR's and some with recently cleaned ones who were done at a timely interval. While the EGR makes a big difference on keeping the Exhaust gas temps down, it's simply not the ONLY reason for head gasket failure by any stretch of the imagination. There are a few internal things yet to be covered. We just broke open a 4th gen with coffee colored oil today in fact, blown head gasket. Also another one awhile back due to a lower exhaust control valve getting stuck open causing the coolant to pour out of the tailpipe and blow the HG. Very rare but still happens.

    I seem to remember you saying they only blow on #2 cylinder, sure it's common...but we've seen a variety of different cylinders blown. Your theory is good, but incorrect in this case.
     
    #102 GregC1979, Dec 22, 2022
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    The EGR components seem to build up carbon without oil burning; mine did at least, and so far dipstick never budges.
     
    #103 Mendel Leisk, Dec 22, 2022
  4. GregC1979

    GregC1979 Active Member

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    Slight amount over time sure. At the same time, there's also a ton of oil in the throttle body and intake manifold..where it shouldn't be. Still scratching my head on why people think Gen 3 is the best gen...o_O
     
    #104 GregC1979, Dec 22, 2022
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    I've got a couple of Moroso 85474's in series, mostly deals with that. Still just a little shiny. Another oil source, one time I removed the intake soon after a cleaning, say just a week of two, and noticed oil tears coming down from the intake ports. Not sure how that happens, due to Atkinson cycle??
     
    #105 Mendel Leisk, Dec 22, 2022
  6. wrench

    wrench Member

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    Hybrid PitStop it is.... I just ordered the engine. With luck, it will fix all of the car's woes.

    I checked the OCV solenoid and it actuates fine. And I confirmed that it does turn over (put paint on the dampener, then gave it a quick start attempt) Part of me wonders if I could replace the head but I'm tired of this. I just wanted the car to work, so HPS it was. This will also change the drain to the spin on oil filter, which will be nice. I probably ought to make that change for the second Prius too, actually.

    Oh, I'll also be adding the oil catch can when I put it all together again. After some experimenting with that, I'll probably add it to the second V too.

    Interestingly, the warranty for the HPS engine isn't as good as the one for Gasket Masters (24mo/24K versus 36mo/unlimited). But GM also never really responded to my queries originally, while HPS has been very active. I'm sure GM has its place and is probably a great shop, but in this particular situation, I felt that HPS earned my business. Plus, I wanted the revised rings and pistons on the rebuild. Having gone through this BS once already, I really want this engine to last the rest of the life of the car.
     
    #106 wrench, Dec 22, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2022
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  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    There's nothing specific to Gen 3 about the gloop in the manifold, that's been there in every Prius going back to Gen 1. And it's still there in every Prius ever put on the road, except for the ones whose owners have posted here that it bothers them and they've gone to whatever lengths to combat it.
     
    #107 ChapmanF, Dec 22, 2022
  8. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    I’m afraid it’s late but did you pull the new plugs to see if they could give you a clue?
     
    #108 jzchen, Dec 22, 2022
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    Don’t hold back Chap. ;)
     
    #109 Mendel Leisk, Dec 23, 2022
  10. wrench

    wrench Member

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    Yeah, I pulled the plugs and didn't see any issues with them (did not otherwise check them though). There was no evidence of steam cleaning, which would be one indication of a head gasket problem. The thing that pushed me over the top on the move towards a new engine, however, wasn't the lack of starting. That I can eventually figured out (well, "we" because PC is a community effort and I've gotten lots of help with ideas here). The real clincher was the collection of rocker arms on the bottom of the cam vault (I finally remembered the word I wanted to use to represent the area in which the cams reside).

    The problem with losing rockers is that it will absolutely disable an engine, of course, or worse. This car is being used by my daughter, who I very much care for. I do not want her randomly stranded here and there. NOBODY seems to have a good reason for why the rockers fell off (and the others are ridiculously loose, but only on the intake side) or, more importantly, how to prevent this issue in the future. I see no visible means of adjustment or damage to the cam, tappets, rockers, valves, etc. This lack of a problem source means that the next move would be to remove the head. But if I'm going to do that, then I get back into the whole "now I should send it out to a shop, etc". I'll be into this for another $800 pretty quickly, and this is the second time around this merry-go-round. I might as well just go ahead and replace the whole engine and be done with it. Zero time (well, it is remanufactured, so not really), etc...

    I'm a stubborn engineer though. I want to understand the failure, no, I *need* to understand it or I'll fret forever. It is an obsession. It is a compulsion. It is.... pathetic! Yeah, it is. And, I also know that when I find the issue, I'll be kicking myself because I'm also frugal. I'll be saying, 'damn... why didn't you just fix this! It is just a $10 part' (or whatever)..... Then again, I suspect that most of the people that frequent places like PriusChat are kind of the same way. Birds of a Feather syndrome. I know damn well my wife isn't here, for instance! LOL... She'd have taken the car to a dealer or junked it a while ago even though she otherwise likes it. :)
     
    #110 wrench, Dec 23, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2022
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    There’s these wee caps that go on top of something in the “vault”. Smaller than an acorn. Don’t recall their name/purpose; they’re mentioned in a gasket masters video I watched. Could that be related??
     
    #111 Mendel Leisk, Dec 23, 2022
  12. wrench

    wrench Member

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    I know what you are talking about, I think, and I keep forgetting about them.... There are, indeed, caps on top of the valve stems. However, I'm 95% sure that those were all present. I have been meaning to look again, but, damn.... I keep getting distracted.
     
    #112 wrench, Dec 23, 2022
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  13. GregC1979

    GregC1979 Active Member

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    If Oil is getting past the rings, it's probably shooting out everywhere where it shouldn't be. I think there's a lot going on in most people's "stock" engines that they aren't aware of.
     
    #113 GregC1979, Dec 23, 2022
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  14. GregC1979

    GregC1979 Active Member

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    How many Gen 4's have you personally torn apart and verified this on?
     
    #114 GregC1979, Dec 23, 2022
  15. GregC1979

    GregC1979 Active Member

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    Alan, which direction were they installed (either by you or whoever re-assembled your head after the gasket job)? One of these is right, one of them is wrong.... IMG_5269.JPG IMG_5270.JPG
     
    #115 GregC1979, Dec 23, 2022
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  16. wrench

    wrench Member

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    TOP picture is what I have on my bad boy right now. Please don't tell me I just spent $3K on reversed rockers!

    Very nice, clean, photos, by the way!

    EDIT: You had me worried for a second.... The top picture makes the most sense to me from a mechanical assembly perspective. But, a look at the parts manual implies (aka *probably* confirms) that the top is picture is also the correct orientation. The dome part of the rocker interfaces with the domed hydraulic lifter tappet.
     
    #116 wrench, Dec 23, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2022
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You got me: I have personally torn apart zero Gen 4s. This is a thread in the Prius v (a Gen 3) forum, people sometimes talk about the manifold gloop as something that first appeared in Gen 3, those conversations have been happening since well before there even was a Gen 4, and there's plenty of discussion of the gloop here on PriusChat going all the way back to Gen 1.

    Now, if you're choosing to use this Gen 3 thread as a place to claim that Gen 4 has eliminated, for the first time, the gloop that appears in all earlier Prius generations, well, ok, that's a cool claim. I can't refute it on personal experience. So assuming you're right about that, what do you think they did in Gen 4 to eliminate that phenomenon common to all previous gens?
     
    #117 ChapmanF, Dec 23, 2022
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    Screen grab from the 2968th page (actual pdf page) of Repair Manual, and it's page 36 of the attached excerpt:

    upload_2022-12-23_10-46-21.png

    @wrench looks like you got it right.
     

    Attached Files:

    #118 Mendel Leisk, Dec 23, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2022
  19. wrench

    wrench Member

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    yeah, that is what I have, or had. When I originally did the head job, I am 100% sure all the caps were there. I can't concretely say that they are there now though. Then again, the rockers are not supposed to come off. :-(
     
    #119 wrench, Dec 23, 2022
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    Maybe the few that popped out were wrong way 'round? Was it machine shop that assembled last time? A little hard to believe though, from machine shop. But who knows.

    Toyota could emboss the word "valve" on the top, too dang tricky as-is.
     
    #120 Mendel Leisk, Dec 23, 2022
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