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bZ4X Disappoints and has Surprises in Testing in Norway

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by drash, Nov 20, 2022.

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  1. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Toyota bZ4X Tested In Norway Has Disappointing Range, Big Battery Buffer At 0%

    The FWD bZ4X was tested in Norway by Elbil24. Toyota had a response to the test and included a surprise.

    Spoiler alert: They were disappointed in the range and redid the tests twice to confirm their results. According to the article, apparently the 71.4 kWh battery is actual gross size. Early on Toyota and others made it seem like it was a net capacity. The testers got only 62 kWh out of it with 2kWh estimated as being charge loss. So it keeps almost 10 kWh as a buffer. This was something we saw with previous testers. Please note that if you read the entire article from Norway (elbil24.no) you'll see they actually run it until it hits 0 km remaining. They recharged it twice, once with DCFC and the other with L2 AC and repeat the test.

    Background: They (elbil24) test all of the EVs the same way. Charge it to 100% and run it down until the car, not attached instruments, says 0 km or 0 % remaining. They also set the car HVAC at 20ºC (68ºF) during the test and use the Normal not ECO mode. They also start and end their test at the same spot to offset any altitude changes. The route they use covers 70% country roads, 25% highway and 5% city. WLTP range for the FWD bZ4X XLE is 516 km (320 miles), EPA is 406 km (252 miles). WLTP range for the AWD bZ4X XLE is 470 km (292 miles), EPA is 357 km (222 miles).

    For this testing, it was 8ºC (46ºF), wet roadways, rainy and somewhat foggy. They tested with 18" winter tires. They got to the EPA rating surprisingly until they turned on the HVAC system to 20ºC, then got only 297 km (184 miles) on the same loop. In the end they got 318 km (190 miles) and this was in clear weather and dry terrain (same temperature). Consumption with the HVAC set to 20ºC was 19.1 kWh/100 km as shown by the car. Mathematically they came to 19.5 kWh/100 km. The battery temperature during this test was between 8 and 10ºC. While the battery was at this temperature their DCFC actually hit 112 kW at the 30% SoC and took 35 minutes to go from 10% to 80% and 39 minutes from 0% to 80%. From 0 - 100% or 62 kWh, it took 114 minutes.

    Toyota of course responded about how range is affected by a lot of differing factors but nestled in there was a surprise. Toyota responded that when the car says 0 km, it still has 8.2% left of the battery. Now Toyota didn't say whether that means 60 kWh or the full 71.4 kWh so it could be anywhere between 4.9 kWh or 5.85 kWh left. Based on their calculated consumption that would give you an extra 25 km (15.5 miles) to 30 km (18.6 miles).

    Have a look at the original articles. They have quite the diatribe about how WLTP is calculated. I summarized them a bit. Here's the actual articles I chased down:
    https://www.elbil24.no/nyheter/toyota-bz4x-range-disappoints/77762640
    https://www.elbil24.no/tester/range-issues-for-bz4x-toyota-responds-to-criticism/77763009
     
    #1 drash, Nov 20, 2022
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    so confusing. i hope they get it all ironed out before release
     
    #2 bisco, Nov 20, 2022
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  3. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I agree it's confusing. A lot of stuff was left out, like average speed and total elevation gain for each trip. A main takeaway is if you charged it overnight and left the car out in the cold, didn't preheat the cabin or battery and used the HVAC liberally in cold crappy weather, expect about 170 miles before the recharge indicator popped up at 10 %. This is for the FWD bZ4X which means about a 26% range hit. Apply that to the AWD bZ4X and you come away with about 148 mile range under the same conditions. This would be for a normal person who would just unplug it, get in and drive it without preconditioning the battery or cabin. For the majority of PriusChatters like you (@bisco ) and I, the WLTP range would be something to put our sights on because we have garages and know how to preheat the battery and cabin on mains.
     
    #3 drash, Nov 20, 2022
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's definitely an issue when you're trying to advance bev acceptance. the general public needs a car no more fussy than the gasser they are currently driving.

    you can't have people buying a bev with an advertised range, and not even coming close in certain conditions.
    at least not until charging speed and availability is improved greatly.
     
    #4 bisco, Nov 20, 2022
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  5. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Winter in an EV sucks and it only sucks more with age and driving style, unless there's a humungus pack in the car that's programmed for the winter. Like @drash mentioned above winter ambient temps. driving up a slope, cold pack temps, the cabin heater, thick grease on the bearings, low tire pressure, all combine to deflate the EV drivers ego. But almost everyone likes to complain about how winter sucks in general anyways. Just don't let it get too HOT or there'll be more complaints.
    Winter EV range hit is much more noticeable than it is to a gasser because the winter range hit in the gasser is already builtin to the cost of the waste heat it provides and who wouldn't want to pay more to be warm when it's freezing out there.
     
    #5 vvillovv, Nov 20, 2022
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Ok the way I'm reading this is that Toyota has programmed their EV the same way they program their gas vehicles.

    We all know, there's about 10 litres/2 gal left in the Prius when the low fuel light comes on and the DTE hits 0. It's standard practice in most Toyota vehicles.

    Seems like they're doing the same with their EV - when the low charge light comes on and DTE reaches 0, it has the 10kWh buffer (guess they picked 10kWh like they picked 10 litres). This is opposite of practically all other EVs where the DTE is nearly true DTE with a very small buffer (usually the equivalent of 2 to 10 km or about 1-2kWh).
     
    #6 Tideland Prius, Nov 21, 2022
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    they would be better off to test all the ev's until the battery quits.

    it would be a good way to see if that causes a problem upon recharging as well.

    i have always figured on buying about a third more battery than i think i need, but the general public will be in for a surprise.

    most people don't think about range when buying a gasser, because there are plenty of stations, and it only takes 5 minutes to fill up.
     
    #7 bisco, Nov 21, 2022
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  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Not to mention, Toyota drops power to a crawl after 80%, like Ford did with the Mach-E (there should be an update by now to extend that power drop off cliff on the Mach-E).

    On my EV6, I'm still putting 113kW at 80% before it drops off to around 70kW. That's still only 1C.

    Sure, it might be bad for the battery unless Kia has some really good cooling system but I figured for the very few times I DCFC, it seems worth it. I keep my battery between 60-70% daily anyway for longevity to hopefully offset my low DC use.

    I'll be curious to see how your Ioniq 5s and EV6s last since the US models come with free DC charging at Electrify America so I suspect they will be more heavily worn out than Canadian cars.
     
    #8 Tideland Prius, Nov 21, 2022
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  9. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Winter does hit the range in EVs pretty hard.
    That said, the EVs I have driven are the best winter cars I have ever owned.
    In addition, the shorter range has never been an issue for me (including in my current 112 mile range MINI).
    I have never gone without heat and enjoy lowering the efficiency only when needed, rather than year round.
     
    #9 Zythryn, Nov 21, 2022
  10. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Since I'm not the sole driver of our Prime, I've had to adjust my driving this year to keep any interest at all in watching how the car performs.
    I drive in extremely low traffic areas, so I can monitor systems as much as possible without having to worry to much about other drivers. My latest learning experiences are in HV mode almost exclusively. I'm learning how the engine behaves, the sounds it makes and when it will finish warmup mode for the first time and switch over to HV-EV mode. That is HV mode staying within HV modes EV range of power. I call it enhanced golf cart mode and it will stay in HVs EV range up until about 30 amps max when ( everything is ) warm enough.
    It gives my a much greater appreciation of how much power it takes to climb grades, drive into higher velocity head winds, etc. When the engine switches on I can hear the sounds it makes when it needs to provide the power to move the car up grades and or into high headwind and especially when everything is ICE cold ....
    I imagine just how much the pack struggles to provide that kind of power when in EV under similar conditions the way it gets driven everyday during the rush.
     
    #10 vvillovv, Nov 22, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
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