Featured 2023 Prius Prime PHEV debuts with 220-hp engine and 40-mile EV range

there are many gen 3 owners here who have faced upward of a $6,000. engine replacement while the battery is still fine

 

Say you have 1,000 drivers. 600 drive 10 miles each day. 400 drive 70 miles each day. You could look at it as most people drive 10 miles or less per day, but if you design your car just based off of that statement you'll have a car that doesn't work for 40% of your market.

The numbers get even worse for the manufacturer if your market tends to be people with greater commute expenses, and thus more financial incentive to purchase your car over a far less expensive competitor. Those are precisely the people who need more range than the average person.

Designing your car to meet the needs of the average driver only works if a very large proportion of your customers are the average driver.

 

Seems like it would increase the scraping since the potential for scrape is determined by the length of the overhang from the wheel to the furthest point on the vehicle perpendicular to the slope direction. Placing the corner first just gives more overhang to collide with the slope of the driveway before the wheel hits the slope.

 

Try it for yourself. It actually works very well.

 

I wish I could. My driveway doesn't have the width for it.

 

True, you do need width. Our church parking lot has terrible entry/exit ways, and I use the whole double width as I drive in/out. Same with other driveways.

 

Fwiw, statistics done by big companies, is far more complicated, then the 3rd grade stuff you did above.
Many times, it's done by someone with at least one PhD. Many have dual degrees, with one in math, and the other in the corresponding field.
There are "limitless" ways, to determine the "best way" to fulfill a need/target/desire.

One of the most common ways that people learn in high school, is to look at some distributions, and then try to come up with an optimized subset.


For the Gen4 Prime plug-in, Toyota literally had data on the real-life driving habits of millions of people. It used that data, the battery cost per mile, the target cost, and many other factors, and came up with the "optimized" distance for the Gen4 Prime.
That was in the many press releases that Toyota did.
Of course, all people read is the BS stuff people post/say online, with pulled from their ****ss statements like "Toyota determined the distance for the Prius Prime, by looking at how far a frog hop", or other complete and total BS statements.

The above is how real products are made by real companies with intelligent execs.


Oh. Where did Toyota get all of that "magical data" on how far people drive in a day?
Sigh........
Maybe, look at the Gen3 Prius, and the other vehicles at the time.
Imho, anyone with a Gen4 Prime, should know the answer quickly. I guess the Gen4 Hybrids are similar?

 

Like the rest of the country's infrastructure, the grid has been neglected. It is going to cost with or without EVs.

The battery isn't a single piece of material, and failures that do occur are mostly in just one of the subassemblies. Refurbished packs for lower cost will eventually become available. Seen comments about $20k for people's Model 3s here. The Ebay prices are about half that.

Battery prices are much better than when the Leaf and Volt came out. They are up now because EV demand has been climbing past supply. The other uses don't help. There are other chemistries coming to market that aren't suitable for EVs, but can fill the demand for energy storage and other uses. No reason to expect costs to not come down in time.

If it is the corner that is scraping. It usually isn't. More likely the air dam hanging down, and its most forward part is in the middle.Going at an angle puts that wheel further forward of that, lifting the underside before the dam connects.

 

Multiple grammatical errors in a sentence intended to insult my level of education was a humorous touch. I thank you for that.

Insults aside, the fundamental truths remain. There's no getting around them. There's only trying to obfuscate them by overcomplicating a simple concept.

Taking the words of professional manure shovelers seriously strains credulity.

Why are you quoting yourself and then replying to it?

 

Charging rates seem to be based on the battery capacity, (more specifically what’s safe to prevent damage/range degradation). I fully expect a faster level 2 charger to be included with this up and coming Prius.

Case in point, we started with a 2013 C-MAX Energi with a 7.6 kW battery. At maximum charging rate it took 2 hrs 20 minutes to fill. We moved to a 2018 Honda Clarity PHEV 17 kW battery. It also didn’t take full advantage of our 40 A Leviton EVSE. Total charging time 2 hrs 20 mins.

I expect around the same amount of time for this Prius.


iPhone ?

 

Except it can be. At least one manufacturer is now gluing packs together with industrial strength adhesives to make them tamper proof.

I, too, don't think they'll be any different so the same old issue of economics (it's always about money) will be even more true: poor people will only be able to afford the ones with old, weak batteries and soon face hard decisions. We see this everyday in the Gen2 forums.

True but compare that subset to the number of battery issues of all the rest. Batteries go first. Used prices tell the tale.

 

Apparently you’ve never bought a used car.

Bob Wilson

 

I expect it too, but I don't discount the appeal to marketing in cutting a couple hundred off the MSRP.

 

Having a Phd is not a really good way to prove you understand the market. But here we don't need to guess, the japanese companies with their group think on small batteries and heavy investment in hydrogen defied the likely statistics in a new market. We now have roughly a decade of market data. The original leaf, the prius phv, other small battery phevs have faired poorly. Toyota has even seen much higher demand (which is unfufilled because of lack of production) from the rav4 prime with 42 miles of electric range than the prius prime. The added power and greater range of the next gen prime mean that toyota is finally getting it.

Not sure why toyota had blown their elecrification strategy so far if high school stats gave them great market ideas and they have a bunch of phds. ;-)

The prius prime sold poorly against the competioin in many markets. They made poor engineering choices. I know some love their prius primes but it missed the market. Toyota both underestimated the size of the plug-in market, but thought low cost and after battery depletion mpg were what the market wanted, instead of better all electric driving and sufficient range in poor weather to not turn on the ice.

The better specs of the new prime shows they know this.

 

not in the context of this discussion

 

Didn't used prices for all cars recently spike up, and are only now starting to come back down?

Used plug in prices in the past had steep depreciation because of what the effective price for new out the door was. Depreciation is calculated from the MSRP, and most people were buying for thousands under that.

In the Northeast, it's rust that kills cars.

 

With the growing EV population, used ICE car prices might crash.

Bob Wilson

 

Keeping older ICE cars running is a good goal. Eventually the parts and labor become impractical like the failed brake hydraulic booster in our first 2003 Prius. Getting the part from a salvage was easy but installation in the space between the ICE and firewall wrapped in AC hoses defeated me.

Bob Wilson