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How shall I charge my Auxilliary Battery?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Gil Dawson, Oct 24, 2022.

  1. Gil Dawson

    Gil Dawson Junior Member

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    I left a rear door ajar for several days, so the auxiliary battery went flat on my 2016 Plug-In. Couldn't open the trunk. No lights on the dashboard. Nada.

    I hooked up a 12V charger to the red clip inside the fuse box in the engine compartment.

    The door-open light on the instrument panel glowed dimly for a few seconds.
    Then the charger clicked, its voltage needle went to zero, and the door-open light went out.

    This pattern repeated over and over. Evidently, my charger could not supply enough power to both run the car and charge the battery, but it could recycle after half a minute or so, and try again. Judging by the glow from the door-open light, however, it was not making any progress.

    So my (smaller) partner crawled through a back door into the trunk area, removed the ground wire from the auxiliary battery and connected the charger. After a few hours, we removed the charger, reconnected the auxiliary battery and it worked! Yay!

    It occurs to me that climbing into the trunk area would not have been necessary if the charger had had enough oomph to both power the car and charge the battery.

    Or some alternate 12V supply could have done it. A bank of eight dry cells, perhaps? Would AA cells work, or maybe D cells? Has anyone tried this?

    On another point, could we have opened the trunk door without the auxiliary battery?

    --Gil
     
    #1 Gil Dawson, Oct 24, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2022
  2. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    How many amps was the charger putting out? I'm guessing it wasn't much, but then the Prius doesn't need a lot. Four should charge it up, but don't expect to operate anything for a while. Even a trickle charger will eventually get it done.

    However, if the battery was as dead as it sounds like yours was, a smart charger would have assumed it was a 6V battery or might have just refused to charge it.

    This is true. But patience is required with a dead 12V. Hooking up a charger doesn't immediately give the battery full power. It takes a while to get it strong enough to run anything and many hours to get it to a full charge.

    Nope. Not enough amp hours. I've heard of people using 12V batteries from computer UPSes to run the car, but not to charge a dead 12V.

    Sure can. Page 380 in the 2007 owner's manual. Probably about the same page in yours. But the above would still apply.
    Screen Shot 2022-10-24 at 8.04.41 PM Large.jpeg
     
    #2 jerrymildred, Oct 24, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
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  3. Gil Dawson

    Gil Dawson Junior Member

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    Thanks, jerrymildred.

    While connected via the red terminal under the hood, the charger was putting out over 12V, according to its built-in meter, but only for 30 seconds at a time. Then it would click off, I assume from an over-current protector. The light on the dash would glow while the charger was on, but would gradually fade to dark after it clicked off. It didn't seem to be making any progress. That's why we decided to charge the battery alone, which worked.

    In future, I'd like to own a charger, or battery assembly of some sort, which will address this situation solely through the red terminal under the hood. If you hear of someone offering such a thing, please let me know.

    In the interim, thanks for finding the inside-hatch-opening procedure in the book for me. This information will make recovery much easier if this situation should happen again.

    --Gil
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    are you sure it's a 2016, or is that just a typo?

    if it is the original battery, i would replace it now.

    if the car is off, connecting the charger to the under hood jump point is the same as directly to the battery, plus a few feet of heavy gauge wire. you're not running the car.
    but you have to make sure you have a good ground.
     
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Haven’t read the whole thread, but:

    hooking up either at the under hood jump point, or direct at the battery, should make no difference. I’d suspect your battery is near-knackered, and first time around your (unidentified) charger balked at charging it, but you got lucky with the direct to battery attempt.

    per @bisco, how old is it? Also, what’s the charger?

    If it’s 4+ years, I’d just replace. If younger, and you want to check it’s condition, electronic load testers are available for DIY, or automotive retailers selling batteries will usually do such test for free. Solar BA9 is a good choice with those, for DIY.

    Toyota recommends a charge rate around 3~5 amp, depending on gen. I’d stick with under 5 amp. I’m using a CTEK 4.3, good brand but getting pricey now.
     
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  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Every car owner should have one of the jump packs @bisco linked in post #5, or any of the other brands. I and many others like the Noco ones. I've had mine for several years. About a year ago I charged it back up when it got down to 76%. Prior to that, I'd started a RAM 2500 pickup and two other cars. Haven't needed it for myself yet. I checked it the other day and it's still at 100% charge. It doesn't charge your battery, so you'll still want a charger. But then a battery charger won't get your car going on a dark rainy night at the Dollar General store five mines out of town. ;)
     
  8. AkronRobert

    AkronRobert Junior Member

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    One of the experts here may step up to correct me but here’s what I concluded after being in a similar situation with a dead battery…

    The brake booster gets in the way of making progress with a small charger unless the 12v battery is disconnected. Once the driver door is opened the brake booster is activated and neither the dead battery or a small charger will ever supply enough power to bring the pressure up and shut it off. You’ll observe the charger cycling and hear some brake booster clicking but there’s never enough current to spin the pump. The booster presents an ongoing load which prevents the battery from ever charging. This explains the repeating pattern that the OP was seeing.

    Perhaps an old school charger with sufficient amperage would get around this quirk or even “jump start” the car but I didn’t sort this out. I crawled into the hatch area…
     
  9. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I think you pretty much nailed it. At least that's my exact experience with the Gen 2 models. Sometimes my cars sit unused for a month or 2 or 3. I always charge from under the hood using a 1.5amp charger.
     
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That's about right, with a small naming quibble: it's the "booster pump" that presents that load. (All Prius generations have a "booster pump". Gen 1, Gen 3, and Gen 4 also have a "booster", while Gen 2 does not. And in all the gens that have both, they're in two different assemblies, so talking about the "booster" or the "booster pump" means talking about different things. So it gets confusing.)

    So if you need to jump a Prius, it is good to know how to stop the booster pump from running while you do that. In Gen 2, you can either pull out both the ABS-1 (25 amp) and ABS-2 (30 amp) fuses, or pull out the ABS MTR and ABS MTR 2 relays.

    Then jump the car. You'll probably have some brake trouble codes because of the pump not running, but you'd rather have a started car with some brake trouble codes than a car you can't start. Once it's READY, put the relays or fuses back in. The pressure should then pump up and the beeping stop. The warning lights should go out on their own within a few drives, or can be cleared if they don't.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    The booster pump (or booster) runs for 10~15 seconds tops. How about connect jumper cables, and just wait a few minutes (pump runs and has long stopped) before trying to start. IIRC this waiting period is a good idea with any car?
     
  12. Gil Dawson

    Gil Dawson Junior Member

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    Thank you all for your most cogent advice and suggestions. I have learned a few things from y'all.

    Here are my responses to some:

    AkronRobert's explanation with TMR-JWAP's endorsement seems to fit well with my observations. I did observe the charger cycling and some odd clicking, and the "door open" light slowly growing brighter during the charger's "on" time, then fading when the charger cycled "off". Disconnecting the battery from the car and connecting the charger directly to the battery seemed to work: the charger stayed on continuously.

    bisco's question, "are you sure it's a 2016, or is that just a typo?" was spot on. I had just been writing about my 2016 computer, and I got confused. (I'm allowed: I'm 77!) My car's year is 2012. And thanks, bisco, for the link to the CTEK. I'll bet they make a 120V model.

    bisco and Mendel Leisk both suggested that there should be no difference between connecting the charger to the under hood jump point and directly to the battery. That's what I had thought, too, which prompted me to start this thread. This is how we all learned about the "Brake Booster" sucking my charger's amperes. Who knew?

    jerrymildred's diagram from the book is a big relief. I'm going to paste it to the inside of the hatch door.

    ChapmanF corrected our terminology, but I still like our malapropism. Thanks, ChapmanF, for the names of the fuses. I'm hoping I can find them next time. Next time, if there is a next time, I plan to try CLOSING THE DOOR and charging from under the hood. This will take the "door-open" light out of the circuit, and just MIGHT also let the "Brake Booster Pump" continue sleeping.

    Thank you, all of you, for some really helpful suggestions. This is a marvelous group.

    --Gil
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Yeah, the brake brake booster thing is news to me, and very interesting
     
  14. Gil Dawson

    Gil Dawson Junior Member

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    Yeah. I'd never heard of it, either. It also might explain why, years ago, a simple motorcycle battery charger got my my old 2006 Prius out of a similar pickle in a few seconds. I think the 2006 was a Gen 2, which, as ChapmanF explained, didn't have a brake booster pump.

    Thanks again for your suggestions.

    --Gil