Featured 340 more Superchargers to be added in the US

I just got back from a 69 mile training ride. I'm trying to work up to 100 miles while the weather remains nice (though overly smokey), after missing out on these "centuries" for a couple years and getting stuck at 80-ish.

In our annual Seattle-To-Portland bicycle classic (capped at 10,000 riders for a long time, but recently declining, only 6,000 signed up this year), most riders take two days to pedal the 206 miles, but numerous do the entire thing in a single day. My first year as a one-day, in my mid-40s, about 15% of riders did it in a single day. My more recent time, in my late 50s, nearly 25% chose to do it in a single day. Now in my 60s, I plan to ride it in a single day at least once more. Then as a two-day ride in my 70s.

Of course, most of these riders get some training and conditioning first. (As an event worker on years I don't ride it, I get to deal with some who did little to prepare.) My first time, I averaged 19 mph to the midpoint, 17 to the end. But an only slightly younger officemate in a more serious cycling group was very bummed that his average fell below 20 mph for the first time ever.

Considering the strength of aerodynamic drag vs speed, if the ride leaders are equipped and configured the same as me, just riding faster, they need to sustain more than 2X, approaching 3X my power output. But many of them have more efficient bikes, are somewhat better configured for low air drag, and spend more time in lower-drag pacelines. Those reduce their power needs a bit, but they are still far above my capacity.

 

The XL1 was basically an experiment in how little fuel can a car use. The concept cars were tandem two seaters. The production version, for a run of 250 cars, is essentially an original Insight that Honda gave the engineers an unlimited budget for. The price was over $100k.

The 260mpg rating was its official NEDC. I won't bother doing a conversion, as that is the plug in rating, like what the first year Volt had on the window sticker, that also includes grid energy. Hybrid rating was 120mpg, and at least one non-hypermiler reviewer got 100mpg in traffic with the AC on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

The production version likely only happened because the concept cars got a good amount of attention. With just 200 being sold to the public, making versions for other markets just wasn't going to happen. It would have had Euro 5 certifications, assuming the production levels weren't low enough to be exempt. It wasn't going to pass EPA NOx. The flipside to Europe's diesel emission regulations is that there may not be any gas cars that could meet those CO limits.

As for top of the pile gas sipper, EPA rated car, that would be the Ioniq Blue with 59mpg combined. The other trims are 55mpg, and the new Niro may be 53mpg.
https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=44138&id=44081&id=44137&id=44362

The 2022 RWD rating dropped. that's the model year on the photocopy. I suspect it is using the LFP pack, which adds weight.

 

Friday afternoon, my wife sent me to deliver product:

1. Left around 2 PM with 212 miles indicated range.
2. Biology break in Shelbyville:
3. Product:
4. Just before a 7 minute, $3.08 Supercharger session in Manchester TN on return segment:
5. Arrival home:

So the cost breakdown:

• 31 kWh * $0.12/kWh = $3.72 ... cost to arrive at SuperCharger
• $3.08 Supercharger fee for 7 minutes ... cost at SuperCharger (no kWh yet)
• 49 kWh * $0.12/kWh = $5.88 ... total cost at home rate for 223 miles
• $5.88 - $3.72 = $2.16 ... the nominal home rate cost added at SuperCharger
• $3.08 - $2.16 = $0.92 ... SuperCharger overhead and profits

The math is not clear as the invoice does not show kWh added at SuperCharger. But back of the envelope, I can live with this.

LATE DATA:

• $4.99 = 41.57 kWh * $0.12 / kWh
• $8.07 = 4.99 + $3.08 - recharge cost and SuperCharger fee for 223 mi
• $3.62 / 100 mi =( $8.07 / 223 mi) * 100 ... cross country cost rate
  • $3.19/gal ... Gasbuddy.com reported Huntsville regular gas

LATE LATE THOUGHT:

I had limited the Manchester Supercharge to the minimum setting, 116 mi, yet it completed before a bathroom break and getting an iced coffee with shot of espresso.

I could have done the biology break at McDonalds and then a free L2 charge at Lynchburg saving $3.08. This longer session would include taking all cat nap. Next time, even cheaper.

Bob Wilson

 

What are you talking about?

Actually, I could carry those buy I'm now wondering why you carry 4 50 pound suitcases everywhere you go.

 

Why did the individual use 2021 data when 2022 data is available ? Probably because only old data makes his point

The Prius is more efficient.

Why is that so hard for people to admit on a Prius based forum. You'd think they are committing some type of blasphemy by admitting this..

Also an individual asked the question how hard it is to average 20 mph on the bike - it is a challenge depending on your physical ability, wind and the terrain. I am a 70 year old male and can travel 20 miles on a bike on level to somewhat up/down terrain in about 1 1/2 hours. It requires a good pace with no breaks, and you are somewhat tired afterwards. 20 mph on a bike for any long length of time would require stamina and a lot of energy and wouldn't be attainable for most for a sustained period. I use a 40 year old Schwinn Sprint with dual loaded saddlebags that I bought new for $90 in 1980's on my rides, there are people now days who will pay over $5000 for a bike and its capabilities far out shadow my bike - but they will both get you where they are going. 

 

The Prius Prime will go up to 30 miles on a full charge sometimes more.

Prime full charge

8.7 Kwh x .$083 kwh = $.73 to go 30 miles

8.7 kwh = approximate Prime Battery to full charge
$.083 = approximate cost per kwh.

Seems efficient to me - especially for people who drive in and around their hometown charging at home and rarely if ever exceeding the cars range.

Maybe a different lifestyle would make another car more efficient.

That's s novel thought - different people may have different vehicles needs.

No that can't be right because then you would have different vehicles made to suit different needs and there would be no right or wrong vehicle for everyone's needs.

 

It's pretty easy on an ebike though. It's moderate on a recumbent. We have a recumbent tadpole tandem, on which it's pretty easy to average 15 (current gearing prevents trying to average faster). At 15 my heat rate was in the low 90s.

 

Maybe for the same reason others use the long range AWD over the standard range RWD

The is still a tad lower by 1mpge, which means the Prime is 0.76% better. Get over 100 in the rating, and such narrow differences can get lost in the rounding error.

Now, why is the bZ4X FWD 10mpge less than the Model Y RWD?
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=45013&id=45017&id=45756&id=44362

And at some point during the EPA test, the PP's engine fired up. It's a tiny bit by volume, but the 133mpge figure includes the energy from that gasoline. As much as 1.685kWh.

 

I've often wondered about a recumbent bike and their comfort level. They look quite comfortable. How do they do on hills? I often have gotten off my Schwinn 10 speed after a long ride and my back was bothering me quite a bit.

On another note, if I was looking to screw around with the data , I would have picked the 2022 Tesla Performance Model that comes at 113 MPGe to compare to the 2022 Prime 133 MPGe.

Heaven, forbid we agree the Prime is efficient and different cars for different people!

 

easy in a car too - regardless of its efficiency or inefficiency. any mode where are you don't use any of your own stored bodily energy potential.

after riding one for years, there's pretty much a consensus that the comfort kind of outweighs the negativities. You often sit so low that it's much harder for vehicles to spot you which can cause accidents. That should make sense because people manage to not even spot a massive full dress motorcycle. There's a nerdy goobery look to a recumbent. If you wanted to get spotted easier you put an even more goobery flag & mast on your rig. LOL
Then, there's the difference in muscle use. On a regular bike, you can only push down for power/acceleration to the extent of your own body weight. On a recumbent, you can use much more force, as your legs can push against the back of your seat - which often causes new riders to get cramps in the quadriceps. Even steering balance has a dynamic that you have to get used to.
.

 

But uses 20 times more energy and costs 50 times as much.

We all need our exercise for health reasons. Might as well use that energy for something useful rather than wasting it.

 

Cost? .... let's see 50X a fully amortized $0.00 equals how much cost?


.

 

Cost of the vehicle - TCO. My bike was $950 and almost no maintenance or insurance.

 

Someone picking other cherries would go with the 2020/2021 Model 3 SR+ with 142/141 combined mpge, or drag up the small battery Ioniq Electric with 136mpge.

No one is claiming the PP isn't efficient. The discussion is about "top of the pile" bragging rights though.

On a personal note, I'll have to have 100+ mpge to consider an EV. Higher is better, but other traits will have more weight for my choice.

 

Last year's model is hardly "old". They ought to be readily available on the 'barely used' market, the EPA's Power Search default filter setting is for 2021-2023.

It sometimes seems like some type of blasphemy to concede that anything else possibly could match or exceed a Prius.

My spouse is just days away from age 70. While no faster than you, she'll go do her gym workout first, then ride out to meet me as I return from a longer ride, getting 25-35 miles for herself. Without the gym first, she'll do 50+ miles if the pace is 'leisurely' enough with interesting rest breaks and destinations. Being older, smaller, female, and riding a less efficient bike, she can't match my longer distances or sustained speeds.

It also requires the practice and conditioning of actually riding frequently, not leaving it sitting as a garage ornament. That is the part the hampers most people.

Many excellent e-bikes are less expensive than that.

Though comparing $5k bikes to a good road or commuter bike is like comparing a mid-6-figure sports car to a Prius. Of course the dollars can bring capabilities that far out shadow the more affordable item.

 

Thank you for quoting me so often fuzzy1 - I now officially feel important! Do you ever turn your analytical mind to your own statements and replies?

I am not nor ever have been talking about top of the pile bragging rights. I was pointing out to some individuals who are obsessed with a certain model of vehicle that the Prius Prime is not "driveway art" but an efficient car that will go toe to toe with their $70,000 vehicle in an efficiency battle at 1/2 the buy in cost and actually be a better fit for many people's lifestyle.

Nothing wrong with Tesla -
great American company,
great vehicles,
exciting products
and I bet the Index funds I own hold Tesla stock.

I am sure the individuals who own Tesla's are happy with them, made informed intelligent decisions when they bought them and that the cars are a great fit for their lifestyle.

 

Happily, mine went into the used car market after I traded it in. Hopefully the new owner is getting more use than we could.

Our alternate, a 72 mi EV range, 2014 BMW i3-REx, still in service, has ~3x the EV range and utility. Best of all, it does not suffer from the failing 55 F cold weather Prime control laws. Once started, the ICE has to burn gas to bring the steal-able, catalytic converter to operating temperature ... and then shuts off when I parked at work ... an infuriating waste.

Bob Wilson

 

Then, somehow, Post #42 has the wrong author tied to it.

 

Thank you again for quoting me.

I am seriously considering buy a couple of Leather-Bound books with all the quoting going on here at Prius Chat.

You didn't answer about if you ever turn that unyielding examination on youself but I think I already know the answer.

Yes I did say the Prius Prime is the top of the heap in efficiency and I still believe that. It is the peak, hell I don't know I drive a Korean Brand PHEV and probably don't even know all the Electric/PHEV's available. Speaking of the Tesla and the Prius Prime the Prime is the top of the heap.

 

But their and your fund's and my fund's Tesla stock is down 29% in the last year.

While I enjoy some of the back and forth, lets all try not to get too personal. And too obsessive.Every trip doesn't have to be described and costed to the mill.

My wife and I both drive hybrids. Very different driving styles. Both of us could do better.