Suitable substitutes for the Toyota ATF-WS transmission or transaxle fluid?

And if you're going to hang your hat on Dexron VI being good enough, then be sure whatever product you are looking at actually says it is approved as meeting or exceeding Dexron VI specifications (all of them, not just a selected few) ... and not just that its own manufacturer "recommends" it for applications that call for Dexron VI.

The Weber State video above gives some very useful tips for recognizing that kind of language on the labels.

For that matter, it would be even less indirect to find a product that clearly is approved as meeting or exceeding the specs of Toyota ATF WS.

 

Doesn’t “approval” imply by Toyota? I’m seeing a different message in the Owner’s Manual.

 

Toyota WS or Honda never released for approval unlike Dexron or Mercon certification. However, these WS, Mercon LV, Dexron VI, DW1, etc. have the same spectrum of viscosity, additives, and stability.
Not a single report that someone with Toyota ever have problems caused by using Maxlife Dex/Merc, Ravenol WS, Dexron VI, or Walmart Dexron VI. Don't overthink about that. However, never use older less stable fluid like T-IV, Dexron III, etc. or special ultralow viscosity like Dexron ULV on Toyota WS required ATF.

 

I'm very good at not overthinking. Toyota tells me in Owner's Manual, to only use Toyota ATF WS, or risk damaging my transmission. It's readily available, doesn't cost too much. Nothing much to ponder.

 

Yes, I agree 120% with Mendel. Just get WS from dealership that is often even cheaper than aftermarket from Mobil1, Ravenol, or Amsoil. But don't worry too much if we ever used those Dexron VI ATF in Toyota, nothing is broken.

 

I have read in Europe, and probably other places ‘round the globe, Toyota ATF WS is hard to find, and/or ridiculously expensive. Or, sometime down the road, there might be worldwide shortage, who knows. So researching alternates is worthwhile.

 

Here 1L ATF WS is around $12.

 

Usually Toyota WS is cheaper than 0w-20 Toyota SN plus per L. Engine oil is actually cost more to produce because of more harsh environment in the engine with blow by, heat, and radicals from combustion chambers.
That's why I roll my eyes when someone said ATF can clean engine better than motor oil. ATF is probably more stable in milder environments than engine oil with typical 5 years self life.

 

Get your hands dirty and greasy and then rub ATF on one and motor oil on the other. The ATF is way more detergent.

 

I did use my used WS oil when cleaning the internal 8 speed Shimano Alfine. It works very well for grease and gunk. Shimano Afine cleaning fluid is 1000% marked up price ATF. So, I may be wrong. However, the viscosity of ATF is very low and is not made to deal with engine temperature and radical gases. Kerosene also clean grease and gunk really well. It may be just the properties of thinner oil itself.
The reason Shimano use ATF because it is also good to handle gears, especially the pawls and shifting mechanism. But the gears are smeared with grease.

 

It's this video between 24min and 34min -

He does a great job on everything he does. I think his point is that the WS additive package could be synthetic, making WS a synthetic blend, and that the additive package matters more than the base stock. I wish we had more detail on exactly what these manufacturers are doing. Like when you buy cleaning fluids or food, they list the ingredients.

 

The bottle says full synthetic.

 

They dont have Toyota ATF-WS at your local Toyota dealership?? Just like Mendel I think i paid less than 10$ canadian per quart from my local dealership. I'd start there.

 

It’s a bit more last time I checked with dealership, but not a lot: $11~12 CDN per liter IIRC. Their bulk Toyota motor oil price has really shot up though: I caved lately and got Costco Kirkland 0W20 instead, $60 for 10 US quarts.

 

I found that all Dexron VI certified ATF are never full synthetic (PAO) either. However the definition of full synthetic in USA includes group III or Hydrocracked HC oil. In europe, only PAO can be considered fully synthetic and even Ravenol Dexron VI and WS did not claim full synthetic. Amsoil and Valvoline are USA company and claimed group iii as full synthetic too. I think something about pure PAO base oil is not suitable for ATF.

 

I've been running full synthetic wd-40 in my engine and trans for 150,000 miles
without a problem. They both still look brand new. I change the wd-40 in the engine
every 25,000 miles and it's always looks clean. I never change the oil.

And it's a chinese copy of wd-40 called cc-80. So It's twice as good.

 

Redline D6 is full synthetic.

 

One interpretation of Magnusson Moss (United States legal statute) is that:

If an auto manufacturer requires the use of a specific fluid to keep the warranty active, then the vehicle manufacturer must provide that fluid for free.

Ever wonder why BMW would give free maintenance (oil changes) during the four year warranty period? There was ONLY ONE 5W-30 LL-01 oil available, and it was available through the dealer.

Toyota's "doesn't need changing" equates to avoiding this....

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

That could well be. Put's them in a quandry?

I really don't subscribe to the "they're trying to get rich through the sale of Toyota ATF WS, think they're just trying to avoid "clever" owners using something that's going to mess it up.

 

I think there is nothing more important than just doing regular ATF changes every 60-100k miles. Regardless we use WS, Dexron VI, Dex/Merc maxlife, boutique Amsoil or Redline. Keeping 200k miles original WS is still much worse than replacing it with Dexron VI every 100k miles. I only talk about compatible ATF with similar additives, stability, lifespan, and viscosity. Do not ever use Dexron III or older fluid.
If EVs like Tesla use Dexron VI for their electric motor cooling system and transmission, why would we worry about the dielectricity of Dexron VI or Mercon LV additives in Prius? They are both using high-voltage motors and ATF is very insulating, unlike AC oil.
I had used Dex/Merx Maxlife for the past 15 years in Nissan Altima 02, Civic 99, Prius 06, Corolla 01, and Sienna 04 and they all shift really smoothly over 150k miles or more. It is just damn cheap in Walmart 4 Quarts for $17. It also has a very good consistency (no burning smell) after 60k miles later when I drained it.

But now, I use either the original Toyota WS or Ravenol WS in Europe. In fact, the characteristics of Ravenol WS and Dexron VI are exactly the same, at least the pouring temperatures. Even Aisin makes ATF6+ that is also compatible with WS and Dexron VI

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.automaticchoice.com/uploads/producten/pdfs/Tools/Oils_Aisin.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwifiqvrxN_6AhU9_rsIHRJrBsYQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0bDF7LxBJ38zl-UCnFSmMp

Aisin makes all Toyota transmissions.