Featured Plug-in Hybrid outsells the RAV4 Prime

So funny the way rich people who didn't earn their money with hard work think an economy works... The stench of arrogance and privilege in your comments is the same stench that has created a massive disparity of wealth that starves billions of people just so a small number of people who always get out of paying taxes and never get dirt under their fingernails can be richer than anyone should ever be allowed to be.

 

Hmmm. I doubt that the hundreds of millionaire CEOs had such a direct devastating impact on the economy of 7.75 million people who live i the SF bay area. But I do agree that the incredibly large number of high tech jobs has lead to a higher cost of living than might otherwise exist.

I suspect that the higher than average IQ of the tech workers along with higher salaries may have led to greater adoption of the new technology used by electric cars.

 

I live in Alabama, part of poor Dixie, yet managed to own and have operated:

• used 2003 Prius (until unable to self-repair hydraulic brake pump)
• new 2010 Prius (replaced by 2014 BMW i3-REx)
• used 2014 BMW i3-REx (still in service as wife's daily driver)
• new 2017 Prius Prime (traded in for Tesla)
• new 2019 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus (my daily driver with 2" receiver hitch)

It is not the owner nor their income but the product that led to our ownership. Resentment of ALL rich belies failures of intellect to recognize and appreciate what they did when they earned it instead of inherited it.

Bob Wilson

 

More likely it was the generous subsidies from the state of California that lead to that greater adoption.
How many of those intelligent people are actually plugging in their PHEV?

 

Tollbait, Have you any sources to support that assertion that generous subsidies are the reason that areas with higher incomes have a higher percentage of high tech in their life? There are marketing studies that find that cities with a high income and skilled workers tend to be early adopters. The term "early adopters" applies to everything from new foods to cars with advanced tech. Back in the mid 1990s the local phone company determined that my are was ideal for market testing new technology like DSL, high definition TV, new cell phone designs and features, etc because of the demographics of being a bedroom community for Silicon Valley.

As to the question about charging of PHEVs... As I walk though the neighborhood, most of the cars that I recognize as PHEV are plugged in. Of course, I can't tell if the ones that are unplugged are already fully charged. After all, it takes minutes on an L2 charger to replenish the battery after a 5 mile drive to the grocery store and back.

I don't have a way to determine how many cars there are FROM MY AREA that charge at work during the day. Any studies that I've found on PHEV charging were using data aggregated over large areas.

 

I'm not sure why you think I'm rich or don't work, but it seems as though what you imagine about the world informs your views a great deal more than reality does.

And what on a sane planet does any of your lunatic rantings have to do with pointing out that Toyota's earnings per share are higher now?

EDIT - I should add that your graph is misleading. I would not be surprised if it was intentionally misleading to provide justification for some cockamamie agenda. Don't take my word, go get the data yourself and just take away the so-called "adjustment for inflation."


Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Productivity (Output per Hour) for All Employed Persons | FRED | St. Louis Fed,

Guess what happens? That alleged gap between productivity and pay evaporates. The entire effect is created by applying different adjustments to productivity and wages.

The BLS adjusts the wages by CPI and productivity by the implicit price deflator. The result is an apples to oranges comparison.

And just in case anyone alleges that graph is because people are working more hours, this graph shows hourly compensation compared to productivity:

Nonfarm Business Sector: Labor Productivity (Output per Hour) for All Employed Persons | FRED | St. Louis Fed,

 

California's "generous" subsidy for PHEVs until very recently was $1,000. I know because I received it, twice.

 

I figured the greatest California subsidy was an HOV sticker.

Bob Wilson

 

The HOV lanes aren't enforced. Pretty much nothing is enforced in California anymore. The HOV lanes are often worse than the regular lanes because they are full of cheaters. It became such a useless "perk" that I didn't even bother to apply for the stickers with my latest Prius.

 

Only thing worse than obnoxiously rich people who deprive so many with their greed is people like yourself who aren't rich but cheer them on as if the highest moral virtue is to not care about anyone except yourself and the rich people you hope to one day be like.

So spare me your apologist BS that uses charts and graphs to deny the level of poverty and unequal distribution of wealth in our society today. Just because you think championing Wall Street's ways of building wealth with scams and exploitation rather than substantive work that has a meaningful contribution to our future doesn't make you right, it just makes you part of a very grave threat to the future of humanity.

 

My area of Pennsylvania is also popular with companies for test marketing products. Which isn't related to my response to a comment about electric cars and their adoption in California.

California is one of the more generous states in terms of subsidies for the consumer when it comes to plug ins. They also swing some bigger sticks at the manufacturers. The 10 year or 150k mile warranty on hybrid components came into being because it was a CARB requirement for such cars to have it in order to qualify for those subsidies. That in turn alleviated some buyers concerns over the new technology.

Then there is the ZEV program. Without that, the major car companies would likely never have even have made a plug in. There were several EVs that were only sold in California. Even now, buyers have a greater level of EV choice, as manufacturers are more likely to ship their limited EV production to California first.

Also, having a high paying job or a high skilled one is not a measure of intelligence.

A study was reported on showing a decent number(20% IIRC) of plug in owners in California went back to ICE. It was discussed here. The numbers that went back to ICE was close to another number; the number of people without available home charging. California subsidies were good enough to get people in which a BEV was not a good fit to buy one.

Over the years, posters here have claimed that they only got a PHEV for the HOV access, and had no intention of plugging in.

Those HOV stickers were once adding $4000 resale value to a gen2 Prius.

 

dbstoo said: ↑
Tollbait, Have you any sources to support that assertion that generous subsidies are the reason that areas with higher incomes have a higher percentage of high tech in their life?

I see no sources to support that assertion nor for any of the other assertions in that post. Oh well, It was worth asking.

 

And now that the waiting lists are so long to buy an EV out here on the west coast a low mileage gen2 Prius has doubled in value. I'm seeing used Gen2 in good condition with low miles for $10K when they were half that value a few years ago.

 

and gas prices

 

This little side thread is about the adopt of EVs. With them having the same level of tech as any other car the affluent could afford, it likely wasn't a major contention for the buyers. Do you have any sources showing that tech was the major reason people chose a plug in, and something else, like performance, environment, or the subsidies?

 

You sure think you know who I am and what I believe. Projection is a hell of a thing.

The irony is that the reason we have giant multinational corporations and people with obscene amounts of wealth is specifically because people bestowed upon the government so much power to grant monopolies and so much money to throw around. The rich are in Congress passing laws and regulations to benefit their corporate donors and quash their competition. I can hardly stop from guffawing when people tell me the answer is just to make them MORE powerful.

Nobody's denying anything except for you. I just pointed out how the graphic you posted was misrepresenting reality and then referenced data anyone can check for themselves to prove it. You don't like the data, which is fine. The great thing about facts is that they're true whether you believe them or not.

Now back to the original topic, which was showing that Toyota is making more money than ever right now. They have every financial incentive in the world to drag this "shortage" out for as long as they can milk it. You can bet your 401(k) that's exactly what they're going to do.

 

It's rather obvious that the tech is the reason that plugins can excel in things like performance, environment, etc. Without the tech, you would not have extreme performance or extremely clean running.

 

You're totally clueless. You're unwittingly arguing that having zero empathy for your fellow man is a virtue. As if pretending all the facts of its harms are false. Clicking "ignore" on your username so I never see another word from you ever again!

 

I wonder if your arguing for the virtue of "empathy for your fellow man" is valid in any reasonable way.

Many of the virtues are a construct of society that are meant to allow large numbers of people to live together despite the innate urge to steal what you can from your neighbor. I've heard it said that most wars are fought over water, fertile land or just plain plunder.

So, is it a good thing to reward the weak and the lazy by supporting them long enough that they can procreate while they contribute nothing to society? I don't know. Is it a bad thing to allow people to amass huge fortunes while providing employment for millions of people? Probably not. If you reward people who are doing good things for society, you sometimes end up with people who do things like build hospitals, schools and museums. Where do those things come from when every person is limited to only the wealth needed to get through the next growing season?

If everyone's income is limited to $50,000 a year, who pays for the roads that our Priuses drive on? For that matter, who could afford a Prius?

 

Tech is also the reason for getting performance, efficiency, and cleaner emissions out of an ICE.

You claimed the EV adoption rate in your area was because of tech without proof. You now seem to be expanding what that tech is. To the question of "what do you prioritize in a new car?", the person saying tech likely isn't thinking of the same thing as the person that said performance.

CR conducted a national survey.
More Americans Would Buy an EV | Interest in Low-Carbon Fuels - Consumer Reports

• Q4 While we understand there are many factors to consider when buying or leasing a vehicle, for this question we are interested in
  understanding what social/emotional factors impact your vehicle purchasing decisions. - 6% said being first to adopt new/advanced technology.
• Q9 Below are attributes that an electric-only vehicle might have. Which, if any, of these would most encourage you to buy or lease
  [If Q5=1,2 "another"; ELSE "an"] electric-only vehicle? - 11% Has all the latest technology

California responders could skew higher for those questions, but you also spoke of the number of Prius Primes you see. What technology, besides the plug, does it have that the Prius doesn't?