VinFast

As @Grumpy cabby pointed out, there is a lot of areas in how battery leasing works out isn't clear.

 

I wonder how he's doing? It's years since he's been on here.

I was in Yorkshire a couple of months ago. A Grumpy Cabbie rear-ended me on a road in Leeds, but it was not the Grumpy Cabbie.

 

Well got a call from them this morning but did not answer because I did not recognize the number.

Updated pricing, with battery purchase option puts a huge starting price of $57k for the VF 8 and $76k for the VF 9. It appears they narrowed the lease pricing to one option, but sadly bumped it up a bit. So unlimited miles VF 8 battery lease for $169/mo or VF 9 battery lease of $219/mo.

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

What would be added to the starting price of $57k for the VF 8 and $76k for the VF 9, if one wants to take the battery purchase option? I didn't know they allowed the battery purchase. With the battery lease, the running cost is over $2k/yr and it does not even include the electricity cost. That's more than 4 times what I now pay for my PP for both electric and gas fuel for a year for ~10kmiles/yr usage.

And I believe they do not qualify for the new IRA EV tax credit either. OK, they seem to be another totally unaffordable BEV for most Americans. sigh

 

That is the purchase price meaning no battery lease.

Pricing:

VF 8 $42,200 + $169/mo (fixed for vehicle life, min 70 % capacity promise). $57k full purchase price (***Starting price for ECO version base/small battery***)

VF 9 $57,500 + $219/mo (fixed for vehicle life, min 70 % capacity promise). $76k full purchase price (***Starting price***)

I wonder if they're discontinuing the low mileage monthly lease option where above a certain miles you pay per mile...

I guess they paid a pretty penny to Pininfarina for their design work....

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

Thanks. That's much better. Yeah, with $15K more for the VF8 or $20K more for the VF9 battery purchase option, now I can see that leasing is a better option for most people. In fact, I can't think of any situation in which the battery purchase option for $15k to $20k more upfront makes sense. I guess if one plans to keep the car longer than 8 years and has faith in the current battery technology that the degradation by the end of that period would not affect the performance of the car dramatically, then maybe battery purchase at the beginning may become economical...

But I still wonder if someone leasing the battery decides to sell the car... OK, then how are you going to return the leased battery before you can sell the "battery-less BEV"?

 

smart EDs were sold in the US with a battery lease, how are those handled?

 

MB/Smart tried to push the leases onto the new owners, but legally it was a big mess. Eventually I do not think they could enforce it...

Smart named their EV the ED (Electric Drive). I've actually tried to help someone repair their bricked ED to no avail. There are more than a few cases reported on the SmartCarofAmerica forum. The only 2 positives I can think of is the size if you want to have a small easy to maneuver vehicle, and it did not drive jerky like the gasoline version with automated manual transmission. They tried to improve it in the 453 which they did accomplish to some effect, but EPA had an even shorter range than the prior 451. For an EV it does not fast charge, (DC fast charge). This made for very interesting logistics trying to take it to a dealer which are few and far between....



REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

@Salamander_King The purchase of the battery also exposes the owner to the unknown after the 10 yr warranty runs out. I did a little math on (my preferred) VF 9 and $219/mo × 12 months × 10 yrs exceeds the purchase price. But the lease promises never to increase in price, and promises 70% minimum capacity for life, meaning beyond 10 yrs I would hope.

I am assuming the VF 9 Plus with extended range battery would push the price to $80k or (very likely) above. That's a lot of money of which my wife (the final decision maker) may not be interested in spending. (She likes the smaller VF 8 in the first place).

This goes badly with the missed opportunity to convert the reservation to an order, in which VinFast would reimburse the tax credit lest the US government not honor it (on the VF 9). They did not make my wife any such offer for her VF 8 reservation....

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

Being a "VinFirst" member we will get $3k off a VF 8 or $5k off a VF 9, and ADAS included for free. (My wife definitely wants to visit Vietnam as they will give a 6 night stay at one of their resorts)....

New reservations get a charger or 3 yrs free charging, and 1 yr of ADAS....

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

I liked the idea of only needing half a garage space, and liked the cars in general. The Previous Dominos owner here had an ED for deliveries. The range was just too short for my commute.

Assuming a new battery pack, including case and other bits, would cost $200 a kWh, that leasing fee could pay for a 131.4 kWh pack after ten years. I think a lease to own plan would be an intriguing idea. It would basically be a financing plan combined with extended warranty. Straight leasing bring up other issues. What is the buy out price; can you buy the battery later; how is it handled for a later used sale; how is liability handled?

An old user from the UK, @Grumpy cabby, used to bring these questions up, because back then, Renault only had a battery lease option. It was a way of getting the cars affordable, but battery costs have greatly dropped since then.

 

Remembering the EV1 ‘lease’, I would not touch one even if it meant ‘without you.’ GM pooed in that well 22 years ago.

Bob Wilson

 

I'm amazed the Domino's owner actually got that to work out. The range was short, and charger rate at Level 2 speed was not impressive on top of that.

Buying the "sled" as smart car owners called it without buying the battery is definitely intriguing. The smart was a $30k ED all in meaning buying the sled AND battery. That was a crazy expensive price for what it was. It was surprising when one actually got a used ED free and clear of a battery lease. I could only imagine the original buyer got some kind of huge discount on the price for them to buy it, aka federal tax credit.

@bwilson4web

When I gave the news to my wife of the option to buy the battery she asked if we needed to make a decision now. Thankfully we don't. The feeling I get is that the more long term we decide to keep it, the better the lease option would be. The purchase whole option would benefit resale value.

So far this company is still pushing the right buttons for me. They just delivered the first 100 VF 8s in Vietnam....

We still have a 1st 24hr Cybertruck reservation, for whenever they may release that, in case both of these fall through. (We plan on getting one vehicle but have two backups so to speak). At least we know to expect a price increase vs the Y xperience. (I left out the "e" on purpose because it was so unpleasant)...

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

The owner had a Level 2 installed at the location. It couldn't handle all the deliveries on its own. What pizza place could get by with one car on a busy night?

I don't there were any plug ins at the time that weren't crazy expensive. Maybe the Leaf with the discounts from Nissan. The gen3 was the one that actually was buyable by the public. It came out in 2013; around the same time as the PiP and Model S. EV choices then were slim. Tesla was probably the only one with over 100 miles of range available nationwide.

I like the idea of tiny cars. The size though hurt their prospect as a BEV. Limited space for the battery hurts range. The i3 got to 153 miles of EPA range, and its construction means it is higher priced than the ED.

 

I contacted VinFast about the apparent increase in pricing. What I didn't notice was that they also increased the vehicles' base prices (pricing without battery purchase). The original pricing was good from first day reservations (like ours) until/through September 1, after which the new pricing applies. As of today there seem to be no new reservation promos, last of which ended end of Sept 30: free level 2 charger including installation allowance or free public charging.

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

I saw in the VinFast news yesterday that on or about November 25 999 VF8s were shipped to arrive around Dec 15 at Port Huenname (Please pardon my spelling). Last night my wife was sent an email that she can place an order (I believe for one of these “City Edition” with 180 mi estimated range. $49,500 after $6000 off for the ECO or $56,500 after $6000 off for the PLUS version. I’m assuming one of those on the ship. No lease available just straight purchase. ($1200 destination fee)

Good deal? Should we?


iPhone ?

 

Service availability?
Financial strength of the entity backing the warranty?

I'd wait till they are producing in NC and there is service 50 miles from you and any major city you frequent.

People in Canada are being told a specific part is liable to be available in 12 to 18 months. Thousands back-ordered. And this for a best selling Toyota product.

I have a history of being first to own cars from several brands...all were long term service disasters. Many sold a week before the warranty expired.

 

Thank you for that insight!

We actually didn’t think about that. We have/had a first model year Prius v, C-MAX Energi, and our current Honda Clarity PHEV. (The C-MAX is gone. We still have the Prius v).

There are some enticements and supposedly 10 yr bumper to bumper warranty….


I did find a recall already!….

https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/28/vinfast-issues-recall-in-vietnam/

Regarding financial stability I believe the company is pretty big, guy on the top is supposedly the richest man in Vietnam. I have no clue where service is although I did take looks at their hiring pages (for myself). It appeared they didn’t have many openings left…


iPhone ?

 

I wish we could wait until 2024 production starts for tax benefits to come back because of production in the US, but our benefits of being early expire at the end of 2023. We are lucky that their US headquarters is here in Los Angeles. We have been to their showroom near us but I really don't know where they're setting up for service/warranty work....

 

So regarding service they are going to send out mobile techs to you…