2023 Prime ?

All indications are is that the Pius and Prius Prime are to be released together. They anticipate chip supply constraints may delay that to January 2023 at the latest. So you may get 2023 Prius Primes being built no later than February 2023.

 

I should probably caution anybody about expecting 2023 Prius Primes anytime soon. Orders won't start until December this year. They will still be built in Japan, so that means no tax incentives save for local ones, like NYS Drive Clean rebates. This means we may get very few allocated to the US and most of the new ones will be allocated to Europe. This is exactly the same reason the RX 450h+ will be a very rare sight for a while. Also 2023 Rav4 Primes and NX 450h+ will also become a dealer lot rarity and further orders for 2022 NX 450h+ have already been cancelled. They are retooling their manufacturing lines to produce mostly Euro-spec versions.

In Toyota speak - it will be offered in other markets with more aggressive emission limits.
Review: 2023 Lexus RX 450h+ plug-in hybrid falls short of prime mover

 

What is your source for this? Are these assumptions and what are they based on? Toyota dealerships don't even have any communications on this.

 

Definitely assumptions based on two recent events. First the review of the RX 450h+ article I posted a link to above in which reviewers said that they don't anticipate sales for the new RX 450h+ in NA until 2024 at the earliest. And Second that because all Toyota Primes and Lexus 450h+ PHEV are manufactured in Japan, there will be no federal tax incentive so Toyota is anticipating lower sales. They may follow the lead of the RX 450h+ and stick to sales in Europe and Canada (I hear cheering) but that doesn't mean none are going to be offered here. New York, California, and Colorado (there may be more states) still offer local incentives so we may see limited sales in those markets. Also they've sold almost twice as many as many Lexus NX 450h+, 27% more RAV4 Primes, and almost 10 times as many bZ4X in Europe than US. The 2023 Prius Prime starting (I'm assuming) less than $30,000 might make it a better sale here than the rest of PHEVs in Toyota's lineup and Europe has no appetite for the Prius Prime (they sold 401 in the first 6 months of 2022). Yes I'm trying to convince myself we'll see more Prius Primes for sale here.

 

Some new more confusing rumors from Japan from bestcarweb.jp:
な、なんと新型トヨタC-HRのデザインがまさかの流出!!　もしやプリウスクロスオーバーの可能性もアリ!! - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」

Oof, this one is rather radical because they started talking about the 2023 C-HR. Here's a translation:
"Well, this next C-HR may not appear under the car name C-HR, but it may appear as a crossover version of the Prius, the “Prius Crossover”.

　We were surprised when Toyota launched the Crown in four series: Crown Crossover, Crown Estate, Crown Sport and Crown Sedan.

　In order to make the Prius name more popular in the global market and further expand sales, it is highly possible to have four models bearing the Prius name like the Crown.

　The Prius will be launched at the end of December this year as the first step, followed by a crossover SUV, a Prius wagon, a Prius PHEV, and a Prius EV. It's just a guess, but...

　First of all, what will happen to the new Prius, which is scheduled to be announced at the end of December this year? We will continue to keep you updated as new information becomes available."

 

My understanding is that Britain has banned hybrids in favor of all electric. i don't know effective date though

 

I believe you're correct. Bestcarweb.jp thinks the C-HR will go the way of bZ series as part of that family. I thing Toyota is homing in on families of cars as an answer to design cues. Man I'm hoping the Prius Prime keeps its hatch or at least becomes a wagon.

 

I think you are putting too much weight on the tax incentives. If gas was still cheap, I'd agree with your analysis. However, gas is not cheap, and people who need to drive a lot, are suddenly very interested. If it was all about taxes, the used market would surely suffer since there are no incentives on used.

In late winter, I tried to get a Carmax quote for my PP. The website didn't allow it because it was a "special car". I assumed this was because there was not enough local (Chicago area) pricing data. Now, it does.

 

The delay is due to extra testing to make sure the wheels stay on.

Mike

 

I am lucky to have my 2021 Limited. It drives like a charm and has all the electronic-safety bells & whistles. The aqua color makes all other cars look black & white. The other day when I was driving on the freeway, there was another aqua Prime approaching from behind, and it looked like a colored car in a black & white world—it is an incredibly vivid color. I haven't seen a better car color with the exception of a BMW with a similar shade of blue–green once.

It will be interesting to see what model-year 2023 will bring. Will the Prime range increase from 25 to 35 miles? It is probably a good guess. The ICE has got more efficient, too—around 42%—so, we should see the HV mode getting around 57 mpg combined now.

 

Here's an Americanized version of bestcarweb.jp article linked above.
LEAKED: Toyota's Next Baby SUV Is A Real Looker | CarBuzz

They have different opinions including that the car leaked is really a PHEV version of the C-HR. They could be right because of the fueling door on the rear passenger side which is where all Prime and 450h+ vehicles have the EVSE port. Also they do not care for the Corolla Cross because of its dreadfully dull appearance. They want funky over dull.

Here's Carsoops version: This Could Be The Production Version Of The Toyota Small SU EV Concept | Carscoops

But they also spell out a new version of TNGA called E3 Architecture which combines elements from the TNGA-C with e-TNGA.

edited to add Carscoops link

 

Don't know about dull or funky, but I'd want a car with Corolla in the name to look something like a Corolla and not a Rav4.

 

Ah! Don't even mention that! I've got leftover lug nuts to go on my winter tires so the OEMs stay good.

 

Sort of like how the Ford Mustang Mach-E looks so much like the original Mustang.

Mike

 

Is there suppose to be an [/s] there?

The Mach-E design has enough cues that someone familiar with the Mustang can see the relation. It won't confused with an Escape or Explorer. Hearing the news of the Corolla Cross had me thinking we were getting something like the Focus Active, Outback, Crosstrek, or a Volvo XC. They all have a clear relation to their made for pavement siblings.

 

bestcarweb.jp says they are targeting 100km (62 miles) of range. Probably WLTP so 55 miles EV range EPA - guess.

 

That's a lot of range!

 

Here is a best guesstimate for the 2023 Prius Prime. More HP, more EV range, better styling and nicer interior. I’ll take one.

 

Sounds awesome, but isn’t the Japan spec measured differently and far more optimistic than North America? More likely to land in 40-50 mile range IMO, which will still be awesome. My guess is it will land around the range of the RAV4 Prime (42 miles?), but will do it with a smaller battery due to lesser weight.

Kris Kreifels put a new video on YouTube today about this article…

The range will be a great enhancement for Canadians like me, as that will push the PP into the full federal rebate territory ($5000 vs $2500, determined by whether the AER is >50km or not).