Featured Tesla has been cheating EPA on mpge and range numbers

I was thinking more along the lines of coolant in a PCM (phase change material) storage tank. It could be about 1/4 the weight per unit of heat stored. But still, not an easy job to pull off and would probably be better to use to warm the engine up for next starting cycle like on the Gen 2.

 

There is still the limits of space on a car, but the big hurdle is going to be getting that heat into the house.

Some of us have thrown insulation over the engine to speed up warm up times and retain heat while parked.

 

My Prius technique was a split water noodle in the radiator air inlet from late autumn to middle spring. It also reduce cooling air drag.

For my Tesla that has a mechanical vent baffle, I’m thinking about wheel well covers and aero hub caps (moon caps.) it regulates heat pretty good.

Bob Wilson

 

Even if it's not technically cheating, it's disingenuous. For example, just because Fox News gets away with knowingly lying on air doesn't mean that it's OK. Overstating your capabilities in order to increase sales is also not OK.

 

apparently, it is, if that's what you think they're doing.

but then, the title of the thread should be changed

 

Yet new, I got 240 miles in March 2019 and today with 80,704 miles, I get 220 miles. I cruise at 62-63 mph plus or minus wind, elevation, and/or temperature variance.

Regularly I arrive at my next SuperCharger with about 10 miles indicated reserve. Best of all, the growth of 250 kW Superchargers, +75% has been faster than the expected, -8.3% battery capacity loss.

Still, the Tesla waiting times are too long so others should buy something else. It wiil shorten my wait in 2023 and teach valuable lessons in CCS-1 charging.

Bob Wilson

 

How is it disingenuous?
The EPA offers two methods of determining range. Tesla uses method B and reports their results.

For me, I get those same range results. Others don’t.

If you want to say the EPA’s method B doesn’t accurately calculate real world mileage, fine. Get the EPA to make improvements to method B.
As for any implications Tesla is cheating, lying or being disingenuous, please show us how that is the case.

 

Tesla is not lying or cheating. They and Audi are using the 5 cycle test that the epa recommends. The other makers use the 2 cycle test with the 30% fudge factor which was determined by the gen II Prius getting 30% less mpg on 5 cycle test than the 2 cycle test.

Cars like the taycan get much better milage than epa on constant 70 mph and 75 mph highway tests. The Edmunds test is pretty much useless. YMMV. Car and driver analyzed why the Tesla outperformed on epa. The better use of regen braking didn't help on the long highway stretch, or more efficient heat, or lower rolling resistance tires. These do help in cold weather and city drives. The problem is the spa should do the high speed test and report that number instead of rolling it into highway. The Porsche likely like the model Y would do better on a 5 cycle test than the 2, but they are selling all they can make so who cares.

 

While it's not technically cheating, it's disingenuous because:

Tesla does not guarantee to the buyer that the car they are buying will have the same equipment, software or battery that they expect.

Furthermore, they don't warrantee that OTA software upgrades or routine service won't impact the range. **

In closing; if Tesla can't make cars such that all cars of the same model + year have the same range, then they should publish the figures for the worst range, not the best.

Dan

** It's happened in the past. If you want more info on that, search for the person bought a used Tesla From a private party. The car had been upgraded to a bigger battery. After he bought it, Tesla reconfigured his settings so that it limited it's performance and charging ability to match a standard battery. He could not get Tesla to undo that unauthorized configuration change.

 

Fox News isn't exactly 'getting away with' it right now. That $1.6 Billion defamation lawsuit brought by Dominion Voting Systems, continues to not go well for Fox.

 

My software updates have only made my car perform better. I can turn off sentry mode that takes energy to record things when the car is parked, and like the trade off. Anyone buying a tesla knows what battery they are paying for, it sometimes is simply better. The problem is demand is so high they keep raising prices (some costs have gone up, but the biggest changes are temporary.)

Hyundai cheated, VW cheated. Tesla is following the rules. The gen II prius got much higher epa which is one reason they changed to the 5 cycle test, but the test is still flawed. YMMV

As far as I know Honda is the only company with their hybrids that changed software that reduced fuel efficiency.

That information is readily available.

You are saying a private party modified their car, then sold it, and the guy he sold it too is complaining that tesla not the seller should fix it. Tesla does cripple some features for third party sales. I know if I sell mine the buyer doesn't get everything. It is one way to keep the new sales price high, but the used prices are also high.

 

No, I'm saying that the car was modified for the original owner, and that it worked as it should. When the buyer had the scheduled service, the Tesla mechanic set the battery configuration to match the original battery, despite the fact that it clearly had the bigger one. Tesla service then refused to change it back to the state that it was when the car was brought in for service.

 

Method 2 gives the manufacturer allowances based on their expectations of efficiency. It is not a hard-and-fast methodology. Two companies with identical cars using 5-cycle testing can come up with different ratings.

 

I’m skeptical of that claim. However, even if true, the fault seems to be with the EPA, not companies using method 2.

 

When is 3% overstating? Four of the Teslas Edmunds test results missed their EPA range by less than that. Of those four, three beat their EPA efficiency rating on the test. Three more Teslas missed their posted range by 10.4% or less; those matched or bested the EPA efficiency. The bZ4X missed its range by 6.2% and efficiency by 9.6%. Why no cries about Toyota cheating?

This is how Edmunds measured the range.
"Edmunds begins with full battery charge and drives an electric vehicle on a mix of city and highway roads (approximately 60% city, 40% highway) until the battery is almost entirely empty. (We target 10 miles of remaining range for safety.) The miles traveled and the indicated remaining range are added together for the Edmunds total tested range figure."
So they are trusting the last 3% to 5% of range measurement to the car's display. How often has that display been precisely correct in a person's experience?

Got a link.

I am only aware of a case in which a used Tesla with FSD purchased from a private dealer had the FSD turned off after the sale. The car was one Tesla took in as a return. Their practice is to 'strip' out options the original owner paid for, before sending the car to auction. In this case, they messed up, and did it afterwards.

Mistakes happen, but it took media publicity to get Tesla to fix it, even though the new owner and dealer presented proof the car had FSD while in their ownership.

This is one of the reasons Tesla is no longer on my list. They aren't the only car company with the mentality. Others are moving forward with subscription services for even minor features, like heated seats.

 

Here's a link. It's been updated since I read it a few months ago.
https://electrek.co/2022/07/26/tesla-ransom-customer-over-80-miles-battery-range/
"Tesla locks 80 miles of customer’s battery range for $4,500 ransom"

 

I had reported a suggestion to the moderator that “cheating” in the title by the original poster, @Gokhan, seemed inaccurate. But the moderator pointed out PriusChaters were used the thread title and we’re free to express opinions, even in opposition. The thread title has little effect on our opinions.

Bob Wilson

 

oddly, the article doesn't mention cheating, just the op

 

The thread reminds me of playing tennis in the windy state of Oklahoma on an outdoor court. Not really two players against each other as much as trying to not let the wind take the ball away.

So when do we stop hitting the spot where the dead horse was dragged away?

Bob Wilson

 

it's like any other argument, everyone is glued to their respective positions, and unwilling to see the other side because of ulterior motives.