10K oil changes are BAD! ??

From the information I was able to find the oils that meet the ISAC GF 6A and 6B standards go way beyond just existing to improve gas mileage, and for at least the 2022 FWD models sold in the US, are the only oils that meet the maintenance requirements (and thereby warranty requirements). An interesting caveat is if an owner of a 2022 FWD chooses to use 0W-20, they then “must” replace it with 0W-16 at the next 6 month/5000 mile scheduled maintenance. There is more at stake here than gas mileage and politics. For your 2010 the oil that meets the requirements of a 2022 is not compatible with your engine (or for that matter an earlier Gen 4 prior to 2019 or 2020).

 

ILSAC standards do help ensure an oil meets various parameters, but make no mistake the "tho shalt use only 0W16" mandate in your owner's manual is 100% political. Again, here is a 2022 manual from Australia:


The politics involve maximizing the EPA mpg ratings while ensuring an oil meets the warranty requirements. And when you have a car getting 50-60mpg, a very small change can have a big effect psychologically on the consumer. Take the Prius vs Prius Eco:



Or the Prius' main competition these days, the Ioniq vs Ioniq blue:



For the Prius Eco, deleting a spare tire, rear wiper, and adding a few psi of pressure to the tires gains you 4mpg city and 3mpg highway on the EPA test over the mechanically equivalent Prius. But this impressive gap does not seem to hold in the real world:





Again the point is very small changes can make outsized differences on the EPA test for hybrids. A 1% improvement in MPG for a 50mpg car is 0.5mpg - the difference between 50 and 51 mpg. That same difference on a 25mpg car is .25mpg - which keeps the EPA rating at 25 (unless the car was actually making 25.25mpg). That actually translates to a savings of 40 gallons of fuel every 100,000 miles for the 25mpg car and only 20 gallons for the 50mpg car, but the consumer sees a 1mpg window sticker improvement for the hybrid and no difference for the conventional car.

Anyway, if Toyota told consumers they could use 10W30 oil for temperatures 20F and higher, the EPA could use 10W30 on a MPG audit and if their test results didn't match Toyota's claims, Toyota would be fined and have to issue refunds to all their consumers. So the US manual says you can use other oil in an emergency but have to switch back (while the Australian manual merely says preferred for mpg and cold starts).

 

So I assume then that your belief is that the oil producers, independent testing organizations (such as PQIA), AIP, other societies of engineers, even in Europe, etc. are all party to this conspiracy. And all of this is because Toyota believes my reason for buying a new Prius is because it had a certain EPA ESTIMATE ( even though I didn’t buy an Eco, but one of the models with a lower EPA ESTIMATE)? Is my assumption about your beliefs correct?

 

Just a qicky question.
I am able to get Toyota genuine 0W-20 08880-83885 oil (https://toyotadirectparts.co.uk/?attachment_id=158452) for the same price as Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20 (Mobil 1™ ESP x2 0W-20), which is fully synthetic.
If I understand correctly Mobil 1 oil is better and 100% compatible with Prius 3 engine, so it is a better choice?
I also have an option to get MOTUL HYBRID 0W-20 (MOTUL HYBRID 0W-20 - Motul) which is slightly more expensive. Motul is my preferred choice since I use it on all other cars.
Which one should I chose? Which standard does the oil need to be up to?

 

Mobile produces the Toyota oil and is very similar to what you can buy off the store shelf but, of course, the Toyota oil would be better but it's probably minuscule in the grand theme of things. I'd be interested to know just WHAT brand of oil is in those huge el-cheapo drums of oil they have at quicky oil-change shops and even at dealerships! (Is it recycled oil??) I have rarely trusted it in my cars.

But if any of are do use quicky oil change shops, PLEASE don't go 10,000 miles between oil changes!! Gosh, I'd be checking it to see if it's getting dirty at 3,000 miles and change it then....my $20,000-50,000 vehicles just aren't worth the gamble!

 

I am really amazed at the prices for oil change service you have in USA, if I remember correctly 20-30 USD?
Huh, I pay 60 USD for quality oil and oil filter alone and do the oil change service myself and I would never use a shop for an oil change service with such low price, because they cannot use a quality parts for such a price.

 

All I’ve used since we got our 2010 (new) is the dealership purchased Toyota 0W20. At first I purchased bottled, but then, bummed out about all the oil-contam’d empties, I switched to bringing a container, purchasing their bulk oil, purportedly the same oil. It is identical in appearance.

my 2 cents: bulk oil purchase should be strongly encouraged.

 

I think an oil change with synthetic will run folks $60-70 now. I checked Jiffy Lube and they have a coupon for $12 off which wouldnt' make it too bad. (It says they use Pennzoil which is not my favorite....mine are Toyota, Mobile One, Kirtland (Costco brand made by Mobile), Amazon (made by Mobile), and Valvoline synthetics.) My local Walmart Automotive charges $52.88 for a synthetic oil change but buyer beware!! (Verify ANY work those folks do as soon as you get the vehicle back.)

 

That is cheap.
Mobile 1 costs here 13 USD per liter + 16 USD for an oil filter.

 

It is unlikely it is better but it may be equivalent. I use it. There are some old and superseded facts about Mobil 1 "full synthetic" oil. At one time fifty years ago it was fully synthetic, patented, expensive oil. Exxon bought Mobil, others came up with less expensive "synthetic" made exclusively from conventional oil and eventually ExxonMobil switched their process to the less expensive solution. To be clear, the current synthetics are not "blends" of synthetics and conventional BUT some bulk oil is a blend. As far as I know, Toyota uses Mobil1 oil, maybe with a slight change of additives. Honda is very likely to still give you a blend at their dealerships.

Finally today's synthetics are arguably better than fifty years ago because of improved additive technology even though the base oil is less sophisticated. Especially for Direct Injected (DI) engines like Honda and many German cars use. They need the new GF-6A and GF-6B specs. Toyota's newest engines are dual injection, both Port and Direct, but our Prii are still Port Injection only.


Toyota Dual Injection

 

Yes, that is final price with VAT.

 

Toyota oil is made by Exxon-Mobil (NOT Mobile !) according to Toyota's recipe, but is completely different from any Mobil 1 version. "Better" is debatable, at best.

 

As far as I have collected the info, Toyota APE oil is not fully synthetic, while Mobil ESP X2 is. This should (according to my GUESS ) provide longer life for the oil, since I will be doing 10.000 miles oil change, because the car is used in perfect driving conditions for the engine: 30+ miles one way highway cruising at 55-60mph.

 

Here is a photo of genuine Toyota oil after 13.000km (8.077miles) service. On the left side is fresh Mobil 1 0W-20 X2 for comparison (first time see green coloured engine oil)..
The old oil is quite black, but you can still see the golden reflection. It is not burned through and through.
Car was mainly driven on a longer trips (cca. 30 miles one way) on highway with cruise control set at 60mph. Very little city or short driving. Average consumption achived 51.1 mpg US. The car is Auris with 3rd gen Prius drive not Prius 3 which affects a little bit the economy since it is not so aerodinamic.


Can someone post a photo of the oil after 5.000 miles service?

 

You can't judge the quality of the oil by mileage.
Most people report the car running fine, until the connecting rod went through the block.....
You don't drive much so save your piston rings and cylinder walls and change at 5000 miles or
maybe 7500 miles....
But, your engine.

 

Yeah that's all good and sounds great I have no idea these are the realities for everyone or not I know my two gen three Priuses get 10,000 mi oil changes as does my Gen 2 now and they are all sitting right near 300,000 at $300,000 there is no way in the world that it's worth changing the oil at 5000 mi just doesn't seem logical especially with an engine like the one in z now with the ZZ and the Gen 3 there may be some logic to this but the engine's going to fail anyway I just rather change it and be done with it it's not that expensive of a proposition if you're willing to hustle

 

As I have already written, it is not the price, but the impact on environment of throwing away perfectly good oil in 21st century. I stress again that the car is used in basically perfect conditions.
Also, I would need to do 5+ oil changes per year, which is just crazy. I was doing 6.500 miles oil service 25 years ago and I am doing 10.000 miles service for last 20 years on non Toyota cars.
And of course I am not using cheap noname oil/filters. Only best (to my knowledge) parts.
Anyway, I would really like to see a photo of oil after 5000 miles service.

 

Just 5k ok few weeks it'll be 5W 30 syn oil from Gen2 09 like 307K