Featured Tesla loses the race for mainstream EVs to GM

<AHEM>The "S" curve:


We remain in the 5-10 region of the "S" curve as EV manufacturing catches up to demand.

Bob Wilson

 

I buy generic brands, cheap wine, shop at Walmart, Lidl and Costco, use a heavily subsidized 'droid phone of the A and not S series on a limited data plan. Never bought a luxury or near-luxury car (unless you count the Porsches and Alfas but those get classed as sports cars and 4 of the 5 were used and the only new one was really a rebadged VW (can it really be 52 years ago.)

But I buy an every options top trim level hybrid. And I buy only the best tires.

In other words, I save sometimes and spend on other things that are priorities to me. And save and invest.

I don't expect that other people's priorities would be the same as mine.

 

not likely

 

I wasn't talking about people that do drugs or smoke or get help from the government. I was talking about people who's rent trippled or quadrupled from around $600 to over $2,000 in a few short years. People who bought a camper trailer and pulled it out into the forest with a a 3/4 ton Dodge Ram diesel with wife and kids and pets.

 

I was referring to the idea that cars are becoming like iPhones, that people will buy more along the lines of prestige and not necessarily practicality or feasibility. How many people buy used iPhones?

I long for the day a long range EV will be as cost effective as an ICEV. I tried a Nissan Leaf and it didn't work out, even though my wife says that was her favorite car we've had.

I hope so. Sometimes I feel like we're more in the 0 to 5 region.

 

I stated pre owned to refer to ones only a few years old, usually off lease.

Plenty of people already buy cars based on brand or luxury market. Or more accurately lease for three years. I think that's how most new BMWs get on the road. This isn't new.

Considering how much a person can get for their old phone, and the credit companies give for them, somebody must be buying used ones.

The Leaf was an early entry into the BEV market. The Bolt likely has a lower list price than the one you had, and at least double the range. The Spark EV came out a few years after the Leaf. It cost more than the 2023 Bolt EV, and had less than a third of the range.

The issue right now with EVs is limited production capacity for the demand. So most car companies are going to make models that get better profits.

 

Ya, the Leaf I had had a MSRP of over $40,000, but I got it for less than a quarter of that.

Ya, it definitely seems like a demand thing. Supposedly my Avalon is still worth what I paid for it, which if I could sell it and have a bit more for a down payment, I could almost get a new Bolt, or a least a used one. But it would be smaller and I kind of would like bigger since it would be for a single car family of 4.

One of these days I'll have my EV again. I just have no idea what it will be. Hopefully it will have a two speed manual transmission. (I know, I dream too much.) And also, hopefully I won't be 70 when I can finally get one.

 

It looks like touch screens in cars could be part of the reason highway fatalities are going up. ?? Worse driver response times than driving using cannabis, alcohol or even texting!?
Why Some People Hate Touch Screens In Cars - YouTube

 

Interesting video. I agree with the YouTuber's point that the insane cost of owning a car is draining the financial resources of many families. Yep, I know for sure, that if I did not have cars over the years, I would have retired by now. If I live alone in a city with good public transportation as the YouTuber, then I am sure I would not want to own a car. But with a large family, even living in a suburb of a large city will require a car for transportation. And, if I did not have kids and family, then maybe I can afford to buy a car even living in a city.

And now, we live in a rural area without any public transportation. The closest store is 10 miles away from our home. The nearest hospital is 35 miles away. It takes ~1hr to get to the interstate highway. Yeah, cars are an essential mode of transportation for those who live in rural areas even if it is unaffordable.

 

But your upsides are presumably lower taxes and lower land costs so I'd guess lower total housing costs. We moved from a very urban suburb where we had lived for 37 years to a semi rural community outside a small city. Our taxes went down by more than enough to buy that EV. Stores are about the same distance...enough to get the ICE warmed up. Hospital maybe 10 miles away. Most big box stores 40 miles away but we aren't in our acquisition phase. There are tradeoffs everyone makes.

 

True. The cost of the land is almost free where we live now. The tax is certainly lower too. But it is hard to say if it would have balanced out the total cost of living if I compare the cost of living in the city without owning a car vs living in a rural country with a car. For one thing, when we were living in the city, there still was no way we could have done without owning multiple cars. The suburbs of a large city is just as inaccessible as the rural country. With a large family, it would have been certainly very difficult to move around for normal lifestyle activities without owning a car. So, I have no base cost to compare. Yeah, for us, overall cost of the living has decreased after moving to the current rural location, but that is not because of the cars, land costs, or property tax. It was primarily due to the fact that we now live in a smaller house with fewer people.

But I think the point of the YouTube video is not so much about the individual finances, but about an enormous amount of financial burden placed to sustain the automobile dominant transportation lifestyle in our modern society. If we can change that lifestyle, we may be able to solve a lot of societal problems. That being said, I just know it's not going to happen, at least not in my lifetime. So, I am considering purchasing an "affordable" BEV to replace our current hybrid cars. But it will not be a Tesla unless they drastically reduce the price on their models.

Addendum: The YouTube video linked above estimates in the US, the average cost of owning a car and replacing it every 12 years is said to be $9282/year. That comes out to be $773/mo. I think this number is fairly accurate for average car owners in the US. I usually spend less than average, but still, on a used hybrid 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid purchased, my true cost of owning the car was $344/mo. Gen3 Prius purchased new, the cost was $682/mo. For a larger SUV, the 2014 Pathfinder Hybrid purchased used, is $503/mo. The first PP I purchased new cost $438/mo and was cheaper than the Gen3, but the 2nd and 3rd PP were even better which have given me net profit by owning (not a usual situation for any car ownership). I don't have the cost analyses on cars I owned prior to those five cars, but my guess is that they were all in around ~$500/mo.

 

i think the leasing scam marketers unleashed on the unsuspecting public caused many to drive vehicles way above their paygrade

 

If we ever reach robo-taxi level, transportation costs for suburbanites and rural folk will likely improve. For school/rush hour, autonomous BEVs could take adults to work and kids to school. Off-peak, could take retirees shopping and those with atypical work schedules to work. Super-off-peak could be used to make deliveries...

 

Looks like we may have peak used vehicle prices behind us:

 

I saw a new Ford Lightning on a dealer's lot yesterday... $94,000 MSRP.
Talk about a limited clientele.

 

Was that with or without the dealer markup?

 

I would understand a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) to mean before dealer markup.

A base model F-150 Lightning Pro (Base Model) MSRP starts at $46,974. On the other end, the Plantinum version MSRP starts at $96,874.

The XLT and Lariant versions sit between those MSRP prices. So that could be a Lariant with lots of extras. Or it could be a Platinum with the federal tax rebate figured into the MSRP.

The dealer can do whatever with those of course as they are literally "suggested prices."

 

I hope so. I was starting to think my next car would have to be a Chevy Spark (soon to be discontinued) or Mitsubishi Mirage

 

A fully loaded Tundra Capstone runs $83k.

Expensive trucks are nothing new. Frankly, in terms of GHG benefits, “mainstream” is a straw man.
If some manufacture makes a $15k EV, and sells 100 of them, that is a very minor affect.
If another manufacturer makes a $60k EV and sells 1 Million of them, that seems a better deal even if the aren’t “mainstream” by everyone’s definition.

 

That was MSRP. Did not include a dealer markup.