Featured Tesla loses the race for mainstream EVs to GM

Being the 'frugal' person I am...I will say that I'm constantly shocked at how much people spend on their vehicles...especially in the 'luxury truck' segment that has caught on so much. It is just mind boggling. I guess people just take the 8 year loan and must not think about the final cost... Of course, the folks who buy these trucks often don't think of them as luxury vehicles...but they definitely are...given the pricing.

 

Yeah, when I was looking for a replacement for our decommissioned Sienna minivan three years ago, I considered a cheap used pickup truck to be used exclusively for our in-town hauling need. I quickly found that there is no longer such thing as a "cheap" pick-up truck I used to remember when I was a teenager. Even used pick-up truck prices are way inflated thease days. I either had to pay arms and legs for a newish more reliable truck or if I had to limit the budget then would have to go with a truck with more than 100K miles/10 y which is a rust bucket in our climate. Needless to say, not being able to find a great deal like what I found on Prius Prime, I ended up buying a used Nissan Pathfinder Hybrid. Considering that I paid only 1/3 of the original price of the car which was more than $45K, it was a bargain. But still was one of the most expensive used vehicles I have purchased.

I gave up on the order I placed for the Subaru Solterra. So, as a replacement, I put down a deposit to secure the reservation for the upcoming Chevy Silverado EV. If they can keep the estimated MSRP of $39,900 and no dealer mark-up unlike for the F-150 Lightening, then It will be a better truck than Maverick. Sure, twice the price tag, but with the new tax credit law in effect, it may be more affordable than buying a new Toyota Sienna. Although I have a feeling that the price will be higher than advertised, anything can happen before fall 2023 when it is scheduled to be released. I will see.

 

if tesla outsold corrola, musk's work would be done, regardless of vehicle price.

and yes, it would be mainstream

 

What excuse? Explanation for why sales are going to grow fast. The factories are now open and ramping production. The wait list is so long that tesla has been raising prices and profit margins. When they have the production they can lower prices and still be profitable. It makes no sense for them to spend resources on a lower priced vehicle when they can not make enough of the highly profitable ones. GM and Toyota on the other hand can do this but can not produce nearly the amount of plug-ins tesla, vw, and some of the Chinese companies that have been investing can.

 

The most mainstream? does country or area or region come into account? or do we only care about our own region, as though the pollution is going to stay exactly where it's emitted.
It seams like it's the lowly minivan that fits the main stream definition. Not even offered as a hybrid. But - the highest mileage minivan in the USA, on the other hand, is the plug-in Pacifica, though it's arguably not within Reach of the average American's pocketbook.

 

What does mainstream mean for cars though. One poster here defined it as 30k annual sales. The Model 3 and Y would meat that, while the Prius Prime struggles for it.

Teslas are a daily sight on my commute. Some are even are in my town. Two of my friends own one. Pretty sure there is a sales/service center in Philly, but I really didn't care enough to find out.

 

Where I live (15 miles from the factory) Tesla's are commonplace. But so are ALL of the alternative energy cars. I see a few Mirai each week, and some days I see several. Occasionally I see a BMW i3.

Yesterday I pulled up to a light with TWO 2012 era plug in Prius in the lanes ahead of me. A Gen 4 was next to me. I was in my Prius Prime. A Rivan pickup was behind me. A brand new Camero was to my right. Another Prime pulled into the left turn lane.

Last week I pulled up to a light and was surrounded by Teslas and other BEVs.

The point is that HERE alternative fuel cars are commonplace. They might even be considered mainstream, since there are more of them on the city streets than there are older technology cars. There are so many now that we are charged to use the carpool lane this year. In Oregon, they are seldom seen, although in recent months I've seen one or two a day on the streets of Roseburg. ** Tesla are neither commonplace nor mainstream there.



** Roseburg is an interesting case since it's only 23,000 people but the hospitals and doctors (both VA a regional) bring in tens of thousands of extra people daily.

 

And the point we are making is that Teslas are regularly seen outside of California, hundreds of miles from the factory. In places which don't have additional subsidies for alternative fuel cars. They are mainstream cars now.

 

Good. Then we can get rid of those stupid BEV tax credits and other incentives while we also stop subsidizing the charger network. Mainstream products sell on their own merits.

 

Works for me:

• 2014 BMW i3-REx - no charging network needed but charge at home.
• 2019 Tesla Model 3 Std Rng Plus - Tesla SuperChargers, free L2 chargers, and home charging.

Tie to let the other EV makers carry their load. After all, GM is the EV market leader.

Bob Wilson

 

i thought tesla ran out of ev tax credits? prime still has them, but they are cut in half i think

 

Said I was fine with ending the credits back when Tesla and GM lost them. Should end the ones for the Mirai while we are at it.

Maybe a year or so with none for Tesla.

 

I live in a very small but booming rural county in North Carolina. There are Teslas on my street, in the community. I see them almost every time I drive more than 10 miles from home. I even saw the most ugly wrapped garish neon green Tesla the other day. Often one in the Country Club parking lot. Several doctors have them. Minister's son has one. More Toyotas and Hondas in my bedroom community but the tide is turning. In a county where there isn't a single blue county government official. Nearby counties will have battery and EV manufacturing plants that are now just beginning to break ground.

Go North to Raleigh (a tech and pharma center) and they are as common as any GM car I can name. Go south to Fayetteville, not so much. Some around Pinehurst. I don't see many on the nearest big Interstate, I-95.

Go to the rural areas in my County and you probably won't see a single one. Totally different demographic than would or perhaps could buy a Tesla.

No carpool lanes for EVs to justify the growing popularity here.

I'm not sure the right word is "mainstream", I like "increasingly popular".

How things will shake out in a few years I can't guess. Most manufacturers of so new a technology have had early model problems and bad publicity.

 

Another death of Tesla video by two of my favorite sources:

Bob Wilson

 

Suzuki isn't dead.

 

I agree completely about stop subsidizing plug-ins. Even the tesla lobbyists thought the US should stop subsidizing them. Most of the money in the new bill is going to end up accelerating tesla but they will simply raise the price until the competition catches up. Some of those profits will be invested in R&D and new factories but the auto company with the highest valuation doesn't need more help from tax payers. The subsidies had done their good years ago.

The US should subsidize the charging network. If they don't then Tesla has too big of a competitive advantage for long run for competition. Competition is good but legacy auto is not going to build that network. The dollars are small compared to the cars.

Yes Tesla ran out of federal subsidies years ago. Gm also ran out. Toyota still gets full subsidies because they are a laggard, but they will be cut in half in october, then go away completely if they are not made in north america in january. Rav4 prime production can easily be swapped from japan to qualify for the changed subsidies, lexus NXh+ is built in canada. The prius prime likely won't sell enough for toyota to move production. GM and Tesla will be in subsidies again in January with the new senate bill these will expire in 2032.

 

What ever happened to "Joe Isuzu?" Maybe he drove a Suzuki Samurai and comitted hari kiri.

 

Source: Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

May 22, 2013: 4:51 PM ET

Tesla Motors announced Wednesday that it has repaid a $465 million loan from the government nearly a decade before it was scheduled to do so.

The electric-car maker received the loan from the Department of Energy in January 2010, and it made its first payment this past December. That began what was supposed to be a 10-year repayment program, but plans have changed.

Tesla (TSLA) reported its first quarterly profit earlier this month, and Consumer Reports came out with a review calling the Tesla Model S the best car it ever tested. Those two facts, along with a significant short squeeze, helped send the stock soaring to record highs.
. . .​

The other loans were defaulted.

Bob Wilson

 

don't go tripping yourself up with your own words. Tesla has been selling without subsidies compared to other less common electric cars for how long? apparently Tesla is mainstream after all?

 

"Mainstream" is such a slippery term.
John once defined it as 60,000 units sold per year. And I am good with that definition.
I am also good with any other hard definition as long as it refers to a concrete number. Be that units sold, market share percentage, net profit, etc..

To have a discussion about 'mainstream' the term must be defined. Leaving it as a nebulous term disallows discussion as everyone has their own internal definition which often don't match up.

EDIT************

For anyone saying it is easy, just use the dictionary definition, here it is:

.

So, in the case of cars, just how do you tell if something is ‘mainstream’ or not?