Project Lithium customer review

I may have missed it but has anyone posted a side by side comparison of the two Lithium contenders, Project Lithium and NPB, showing specifications of weight, cell source, introduction date, Amp Hours, expected cycles, cost, warranty, etc., with a comparison to the NiMH OEM?

 

That's good to know, is there a side by side for NPB, ProjectLithium and OEM NiMH?

 

Just so I understand why this works so well without modification of of the BMS on the car, maybe someone can explain...

The way the Prius BMS works is merely by monitoring by pack voltage? And it tries to maintain the voltage between 40% and 80% of the OEM NiMH spec voltages?

And then the BMS charges the higher capacity Lithium Ion or FePO4 cells in the new pack without 'knowing' that it is imparting more energy into the high capacity pack? Then on the discharge side, it does not have to kick in so early.

Does the Lithium battery pack charge more slowly than it could because the current is limited to what the BMS thinks a NiMH can take?
What limits this charging rate on the Prius?

 

The hybrid system tried to maintain 40-80% State Of Charge. There's a chart from Toyota somewhere that shows the approximate pack voltage to SOC. So the ecu seems to care about voltage level for determining charge - discharge SOC "limits" for the pack.

I would imagine that it uses the current sensor to not exceed the power limits of the inverter (or the battery fuse). I'm sure ChapmanF will chime in at some point with details.

So the Li-ion pack has more useable capacity (?) within the same voltage (SOC) range vs the NiMh. I would think that there is also some gain due to lower IR (less waste heat) for the same power. And "gain" due to lower overall weight.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

This is an interesting topic.

Despite many posts in this forum about how crazy it is to try to keep a fifteen plus year old car on the road, mine really looks and drives nearly like new. The original battery is about 60% of original capacity which would be nice to increase but spending $2k to do that is not happening.

I’ve read the background on the project lithium website about their noble quest to search for the optimal cells over the years and their knowledge of the Prius is not disputed. But for what one is buying, that is, cells and some plastic housing along with the resistor balancing network it’s seems the price is crazy.

Hopefully more competition will enter the market and drive prices lower just like the OEM NiMH and the New Prius Battery folks seem to be being displaced by PL. I don’t see a great barrier to entry for anyone that wants to enter the market. The Chinese will sell their mother into slavery to the highest bidder. Knock offs are the rule there.

There certainly seems to be a market for replacement batteries given people lining up for the meager supply, so competition should come.

 

@Another I tend to think the competition is already here. New Prius Batteries and Project Lithium are the competition that gives very good new options to the original battery pack. I do not expect many other companies to get in that business due to the nature of car ownership. The vast majority of Prius owners (over 95%, according to statistics) will sell, trade in or trash the car before it gets to 200,000 miles. And the original battery pack rarely has any problems in the first 10 years of operation. So it is a comparatively small market of people who are having battery problems and prefer to replace the battery over replacing the car.

 

Famous last words.

There will be competition if someone is making money. Given the apparent supply shortage of PL where people seem to agonize over getting that very last space on a waiting list for a battery, it seems there is an unfulfilled market.

Like most things, regrettably, probably will be a Chinese knock off since the USA offshores it’s environmental problems by hiding them in China and in turn penalizes USA manufacturing. And the Chinese have no IP protection for foreigners. The Hybrid guy’s disassembly video gives people 90% of what they need to know to produce one. Getting a used PL blade to reverse engineer the cell balancer is all that is needed.

There is a huge market for replacement Prius batteries. The lithium cells offer many advantages in terms of capacity and storage abilities over NiMH. The PL design seems simple enough. The cost is too high and the price differential, between OEM and a startup who’s ability to honor a warranty, is too small.

Competition is always good.

 

Order here

Get Toyota Prius Hybrid Battery Replacement | EnnoCar

 

How many of your personal electronics and appliances are made in USA? Penalize USA manufacturing? You are part of the problem. Stop buying Made in China. Another hypocrite.

Especially your comment "Competition is always good" after complaining about the state of USA manufacturing. Or is it your juvenile emotion that PL is making exorbitant profits, not unlike that vaunted USA company Hewlett Packard and their ink cartridges made in USA, maybe. Ink cartridges that per ounce is more expensive than a barrel of oil.

 

Interesting that we haven't heard from Toaster regarding the problem with this members NPB.

Help please part dos: HV Battery Problems | PriusChat

There is a PC member that did buy the Nimh battery from Ennocar, and had numerous problems. Cost more to ship it back if he could. Good luck.

 

I'm not sure if you have, but I have been to China and know very well the business practices and climate there. The China problem is caused by the decades of offshoring of USA manufacturing. The offshoring is enabled by ignorant and greedy USA politicians who provide incentives to hide the real costs of manufacturing, both labor and environmental.

The displacement cost of USA jobs is borne by the taxpayers and consumers. The USA cannot even make its or enough of its own semiconductors, solar panels, ibuprofen, antibiotics or more relevantly here, battery cells. Any and all of these components could be made here. Even the Lithium, and other materials can be sourced here but are not due to the fact that it is easier to avoid the costs of environmental stewardship by hiding it in China where the environmental problems abound.

I have no insight into the profit margins of PL or NPB as you seem to. It could be that they are not making much money, which is even more sad given the simplicity of the devices.

 

Some people are way off base here. The moderator needs to step in.