Possible battery degradation?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Larrytat, Apr 21, 2022.

  1. Larrytat

    Larrytat New Member

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    Hi all, I am a new owner of a 2014 plug in it has 135k miles. Im generally new to the Prius world and have no clue how the plug in version works. I ran the dr Prius life expectancy test and the engine turns on before the timer finishes around 400 seconds remaining, it shows that the test was interrupted and tells me 15% but I’m not sure how accurate this is. I have no check engine lights and the car runs normal For the most part. My battery temps are constantly mid 85F even if it’s 70 degrees outside and the system isn’t running.

    one thing that concerns me about my plug in is that the EV range estimate doesn’t seem that accurate. On a full charge I see anywhere from 12-15 miles of estimated range; but when I drive the vehicle in full ev with an average speed of 20-30mph accelerating as slow as I can, I’m seeing 3-4 miles of actual range. I double check this with the trip meter and my phone gps. Driving on fairly flat roads with minimal stops. I remember one time I had an estimated 15miles of ev range and then I drove about 1.5 miles at 20-30mph ( according to gps) in full ev. The estimated range went from 15 miles to 10miles with only 1.5miles of actual driving.

    I notice when driving, the estimated ev range drops rather quickly while cruising at 20-30mph. I’m comparing the rate of decrease with other plug in I see on YouTube and mine seems to decline noticeably quicker.

    Also the vehicle charges rather quickly when plugged in. I get about 5.8 miles of estimated range per hour of charge. when I check the estimated charge time on the dash it shows 3-3.5 hours but I timed it and only took close to 2hours.

    Am I worrying too much or is the battery on its way out? What kind of actual ev miles are you guys getting (not the estimated one the car gives). Thanks a lot
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    congrats and welcome!

    how many miles on her?

    are you using the supplied oem L1 evse cable?

    i can't help with the battery test, but 2 hours seems too fast, and it is possible the battery is not taking a full charge.
    the range estimate is based on past performance. try disconnecting the 12v for a minute, and that will set it back to factory default, and may possibly fix your problem, idk.

    driving as you say you are doing, i get about 12 miles before the engine comes on. it fluctuates with temperature, about 9 miles in winter and 14 in summer.

    is the battery icon going down with the range, that converting to a slightly different image when the engine comes on?
    the bars should change from one look to another as the amount of charge left in the battery at zero range is used to drive in hybrid mode like a regular prius.

    charging and discharging too quickly is a potential sign of a weak battery, but i'm hoping it is something else. we really haven't seen any problems with that.

    try getting her up to 30mph or so on a quiet road, and throw her in neutral to mke sure the brakes aren't dragging. she should actually pick up speed when in neutral because regenerative brakes are disabled.

    what tire brand and model on her? i pump my tyres to 40f/38r, but even the factory spec should give good range. non rolling resistant tyres will degrade range a bit.
     
  3. Larrytat

    Larrytat New Member

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    Hello, she has around 135000 miles. I’m using the cable that the owner gave me but I’m not sure it’s the original. I’ll try disconnecting the battery after I finish this tank. When I first bought the vehicle it showed 11 miles of ev range and just this morning it showed 17 miles. I’m aware the car remembers how I drive and will adjust the estimated ev accordingly.

    right now I’m in Southern California, the temps is a nice 70-80 degrees F. And the Prius app shows around 81-85 degree battery temps.


    As I’m driving in EV the battery bars icon will drop but it’s not sudden. The estimated EV range however drops 0.1 almost every 2-3 seconds at cruising speed (25mph). I will sometimes only drive a true 0.5 miles . And the estimated EV range will have dropped 1-1.2 miles.

    when I deplete the ev range the battery icon bars do change to the the hybrid mode ones.

    I will try the neutral test and check the brakes. I might just lift it up and see if the brakes are dragging, this is the first I’m hearing about the brakes dragging.

    I don’t think my tires are low rolling resistance but I have the psi set to 44 psi with nitrogen. I have it at 44 psi cause that’s the max the tire will do and is written in the sidewall.
     
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  4. Sarge

    Sarge Senior Member

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    Hey Larry, congrats on the purchase and welcome to PriusChat. :)

    I have a similar vehicle with slightly less mileage (2014 PIP Technology with 193K KM / ~120K miles), and I am getting about 15-16km to a charge these days, or about 9-10 miles.

    I have a level 2 charger (since we have EV as well), and the ChargePoint tells me it draws about 2.4kWh per charge, whereas it used to draw about 2.7kWh when I got it at years old and 40K KM. So that seems to be roughly a 12% decrease or so, and probably a few more percentage points since it was new. I have never really done a measurement against the odometer, but it seems pretty realistic in my passive perception.

    12-15 miles sounds optimistic, as the car was spec’ed at 11 miles when new. As bisco mentions, the estimated range is based on driving history, which can be cleared by unplugging the battery. I suspect whoever sold you the car probably did that shortly before selling it to you, and only did short/low speed trips which inflated the range estimation. It will surely correct itself within a few weeks.

    That said, what you describe certainly doesn’t sound normal, and could be signs of a failing battery, even if that is extremely rare with the PIP. It sounds like you have the tools with the DrPrius app (I have been meaning to pick up a dongle and the app sometime myself), but you may want to seek out a hybrid specialist ASAP to have it tested, hopefully you can go back to the seller if it is a failing battery…:unsure:
     
  5. Larrytat

    Larrytat New Member

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    Hello thank you for the response. I’ve had the car for about 8 days now. When I first bought it, it showed 11 miles estimate. Then the following days with my driving it went up to 12-15 miles and now today it showed 17 miles. I just went on a short 7.4 mile round trip (gps) and (odometer) on the streets and my 17 estimated miles dropped to around 7.4 miles when the trip was done. So in reality I drove 7.4 miles but the vehicle shows i lost about 9.6 miles worth of energy since I started at 17. I’m hoping this is normal and that the hybrid battery isn’t bad. There are no indications other wise that the battery is bad.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    check the 12 volt voltage at the front jump point with the car off. a weak 12v can make the computers do funny things.
    you can also get a free load test at most auto parts stores.

    if you lift the car, keep in mind the front wheels don't freewheel.
     
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  7. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Absolutely Normal ...
    Plus the temps you posted are ideal for the PiP and just about every other battery powered car currently available.
    There are many things that reduce EV Range and you can learn which ones reduce your range the most if you pay close enough attention while driving and reading what others have already done to get more EV range.

    I learned a lot here Top 20 MPGe | PriusChat
    maybe you will too.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    3-4 miles of actual range is well below 'normal'
     
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  9. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I must have read the 2 posts by @Larrytat different
    a nice pic of his coms screen would help us all get a better idea what's actually going on with his PiP and his driving style.
     
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  10. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    Gonna guess your speedometer is set to km instead of miles. My PiP never showed more than 13 EV miles and most of the time showed 11.

    11 miles = 17 km

    Edit: My PiP also charges in about 2.5 hrs since new on included blue handle EVSE. Don't recall it ever taking 3.
     
  11. Sarge

    Sarge Senior Member

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    This is difficult to follow. Didn’t you say you were only getting 3-4 miles of EV range before depletion, but now you are saying got 7-8 miles and it still shows a similar distance remaining? (Which would be incredible range for a PIP if so… anything above 11 miles would be above spec).

    I think you need to ignore the projected range for now and just fully charge and drive out the EV battery and see how far you get by the odometer (without any heating/cooling). If you are between 9ish and 12ish, everything should be ‘normal’.

    Also, mmmodem raises an interesting point - is it possible you somehow have a metric vehicle (imported from Canada or elsewhere, etc), where it is showing the range in KM, but comparing to a speedometer (?) in MPH? That would certainly explain the “high” range which depletes rapidly; though doubtful since the odometer or fuel efficiency to do not switch in the same way, but an interesting possibility…
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ya, this is completely different from your first post. if you drove 7.4 miles on ev, and still have 7.4 left out of 17, you're probably normal.
    why don't you drive the whole battery so we know how far it can go, instead of making us guess?

    in your first post, you stated 3-4 miles. sounds like you just need to get familiar with the readouts.
     
  13. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Could the estimate of 3-4 miles of EV range been miscalculated? The next sentence reads
    which is quite common - like driving uphill amd or several other conditions could cause that to happen too. There have also been a few unexplained reports of the EV estimate dropping unusually fast from PiP owners in the distant past and even one report of that happening with a Prime recently.
    The 3-4 miles of EV range, does appear to be out of place, but when considering the other parts of the post that look completely normal to me, my guess it that the OP just didn't explain that very well. And maybe we'll get more info on what actually happened or was observed as to why there's a question of early pack degradation if we give the newbie half a chance to explain...
    blah blah blah
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm all ears :cool:
     
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  15. Larrytat

    Larrytat New Member

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    thank you for the reply, I’m glad the temps are normal, I still haven’t gotten around to servicing the vents and fans.
     
  16. Larrytat

    Larrytat New Member

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    Hello, I’ll see if I can get a pic of the consumption screen
     
  17. Larrytat

    Larrytat New Member

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    I haven’t gotten a chance to check the 12v battery, I ll get around to that shortly
     
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  18. Larrytat

    Larrytat New Member

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    hello, I have my Speedo set to mph, I think I figured out what has been going on. I primarily drive on the freeway 85-95% freeway driving. And I guess I have been gaming the ev mode and toggling it to get the most out of the ev mode. I think the downside is that I have been over inflating my ev range thus the increase to 17 mile range.
     
  19. Larrytat

    Larrytat New Member

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    I guess the charge time isnt too far off new. I’ll have to double check again when I have time.
     
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  20. Larrytat

    Larrytat New Member

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    Hello So I think I figured out why I got such a high estimated ev range. I have been over inflating the ev range cause I have been toggling ev/hv mode during my drives since I primarily do highway driving. My estimate of 3-4 miles in pure ev is just an estimate. I actually haven’t fully tested my ev range. From the looks of it I think I might be able to push 6 miles in full ev at 20-30mph if there aren’t any lights.