Tires not rotated?!?

I have not installed Toyota App and never used it on my current PP, but I am almost certain that PP's ECU and TPMS sensors do not communicate the location of the sensors. It is very likely that tire pressures are displayed arbitrarily on the app unless the app has a way to re-assign the corresponding TPMS to a correct location manually.

 

The app diagram is just for aesthetics. It looks like a high-end TPMS display which PP's TPMS is not. As I said, I have not used the app, so I don't know for sure, but unless the app has a way to edit the TPMS sensor display, it is just showing the four TPMS sensor values arbitrarily on the 4 corners of the diagram. When the tires are rotated, there is no "registration" to ECU. All 4 TPMS sensors are already registered and nothing has changed in the ECU, since there is no location information associated with them. The only time TPMS registration (aka TPMS programming or relearn procedure) gets done is when you install new TPMS sensors on tires. They certainly did not do that for a simple tire rotation, provided they actuary did that.

 

Never saw tire pressure in the app for my '22 XLE using an android phone. Some folks have mentioned having it in earlier versions of the iPhone app on their LEs and then losing it with a recent app update.... So you may lose that functionality soon anyway.

Tires should be rotated at every 5,000 service interval. Oil should be done at 10,000 miles. Toyotacare only provides for 2 oil changes so you got yours a little early, they may not cover a 3rd oil change at your 25k service. The manual does say if you use 0w20 instead you should change again after 5,000 miles with 0w16. Maybe the dealer used it to get you an extra oil change out of toyotacare? They're just following the manual afterall. Did you talk to the actual tech or only the guy at the desk up front? Sometimes the shop doesn't communicate that well with the advisors up front.

In the grand scheme your car should be fine for a long while. I only use the dealer for the free toyotacare services but after that I either do my own maintenance or bring it to a trusted mechanic (I also live at least an hour from the nearest dealership so its a trip out of my way to go to them anyway)

 

You don’t need to “mark” tires to verify they have rotated them, and I have learned from experience that the Toyota app is about the most useless app on the market. For example, before the current “update with many improvements” I would check my tire pressures and the app would always show really strange readings. Now, with the update it shows no tire pressures at all. Additionally my Brand Spanking New Toyota Prius has “no specifications”. (Very impressive Toyota ).
If you want to verify that the tires were rotated just record the tire serial numbers off the tires (or really even one). After the service is done, walk out to the car and check the number. If they haven’t been rotated even a Toyota IT tech would be able to tell. If you take pictures of the numbers before taking the car in, you might even be in a very profitable financial position, if they are all in the same position on the car. FWIW

 

Besides never going back there again, and warning others away? Maybe you should probably insist on them redoing the work. They didn't rotate the tires. The TPMS reregistration would have taken effect before you got the car back. Take another look at the oil, but my bet is they didn't change it. If you aren't the confrontational type, file a complaint with Toyota.

My Camry displayed the individual tires. Having a second subroutine for cars without a pressure display isn't worth the bytes saved vs the potential issues, like having different ECUs for each Camry trim to have different info displayed on the dash.

Getting the car to see the the TPMS with the right corner just takes reregistering them after a rotation. That is really easy to do with the right electronic widget that tells the sensor to send out the "hello, I'm here" signal.

 

If you didn't mark or verify the serial number of one of the tires before you went in for the service, blame yourself, not them. If you are driving it like a PP, at 5K miles you have probably driven the engine many miles less than that, maybe only 2 or 3. So don't worry about the oil change as it wasn't needed. Chill out.

 

True in many ways, however, the service was paid for by the buyer in the price of the car, and the dealership charged Toyota for work that may not have been done. Assuming it wasn’t done, the dealership is guilty of fraud on two levels, and the customer should be compensated, first by the dealership, and by Toyota since Toyota awarded the franchise to the dealership and, in so doing, represented to us as the customer that the dealership was “honest and trustworthy”.
We, didn’t set the maintenance intervals, Toyota did. We didn’t recommend service to be done by dealerships, Toyota did.
You are right in that not having the oil changed probably wouldn’t harm the engine, however, having the wrong oil put in has the potential to, and if I can’t be sure of what oil they actually did put in or if they changed it at all, how can we know if there will be damage done.
I have a plan for my first scheduled maintenance at the dealership where I bought my Prius. And I will know if they rotated the tires, or changed the oil filter. If they choose not to, my attorney and I will have a heyday! And I am pretty certain there will be one less Toyota dealership in NW Illinois.

 

NO. App or not, PP's TPMS does not have position information. That much is certain. And, even if the dealer did not rotate the tire (and oil change), what are you going to get? You did not pay anything, right? The most you are going to get would be an offer to perform the service again. But would you trust them now? Isn't your time worth more than the aggravation?

BTW, I skipped my 5K Toyota Care service completely. I had to change my snow tires anyway, so I did the swap myself in lieu of rotation. Other maintenance items are just inspections of fluid and a few other things. The car is now at 9mo 5.5Kmile. I will take for the first oil change at the 1-year mark maybe around 7k mile... or I my just DIY.

 

Toyota's service schedule, like most manufacturers, is a one size fits all. In this case, it is for their ICE models. Your driving may meet severe definitions, but unless you aren't plugging in, your engine and oil isn't seeing as severe duty, nor all the miles on the odometer.

The system doesn't have a directional antenna to tell which TPMS signal is coming from each wheel well. The entry fields for registering sensor codes do correspond wheel positions. The resetting procedure that should be done after a rotation needs to be done in set order of wheel positions. The ECU can't 'see' where the sensors are, but it knows their position like a blind person knows their bedroom. As long as those codes were put in the right space, and resetting procedures followed, the numbers in the app will line up to the right wheel position.

Now, I am assuming Toyota is doing this like nearly everyone else. Or maybe my Camry SE tire pressure display was all a lie. It would be a lazy half nice person way of handling TPMS which reflects poorly on Toyota, and how they view their customers.

 

Do you or anyone have a copy of the Toyota Service Manual for a PP calling for this procedure when the tire is rotated? I highly doubt that a dealer does this when only the rotation is performed. Here the word "resetting procedure" you used is actually "relearn procedure" or maybe "programming" or "registering ID code" which requires OBDII port connection and direct editing of ECU's TPMS sensor IDs using either Techstream (most likely what a dealer use) or TPMS tool (what tire shops use). This procedure is not the same as "initializing" the TPMS after a tire rotation as described in the manual. The initializing only reset the base psi to current tire pressure, it does not re-write the ECU's sensor ID registration.

 

Perhaps Toyota's system can see TPMS sensor location. With a front and rear antenna, it could triangle it while pining them during a reset. The 2016 Camry manual is the same in regards to tire rotation and TPMS resetting, and some trims displayed actual pressure readings by wheel location. The low warning would also highlight the low wheel.

If that is not the case, and additional steps are needed to assign sensors to wheel location that the manual isn't communicating, then Toyota is being deceptive with their customers that have such factory displays in the car, or any using the remote app.

 

I have not driven or owned a Toyota car that has individual psi displayed on the dash. I know there are some Toyota models with tire pressure information displayed on the dash. For those models, I am almost sure that positional information is recorded either automatically or manually. But PP is not one of them. So, if the tires are rotated without re-registering the sensor ID, like most DIY tire rotations, the positional information is never updated.

For our Pathfinder which has individual tire pressure information displayed on the dash, the TPMS sensor ID registration procedure is very similar to the PP (or most other Toyota models) in that it requires an OBDII connection and reprogramming of the ECU. This OBDII ID registration procedure is necessary if I am switching from summer to winter tires having a different set of TPMS sensors. But if I am simply rotating tires without switching, then no such ID registration is needed. The ECU automatically corrects the location of the tire sensors on the display. I have tested this functionality on my car, so I know it works without any re-registration. I believe Toyota models that have the individual tire pressure displayed on the dash must have similar functionality, although I can't confirm it without owning such Toyota car.

 

I applaud your efforts to actually take care of your engine and the rest of the car. I am not sure, but I believe the Casita app actually showed the pressure transmitters id’s. (I realize that information is a little late for this situation). If all else fails, if I was in your shoes I might be tempted to just go ahead and change the oil now my self. Another idea is to check the oil filter number (assuming you have a spin on type). From what I understand the number of the OEM and the ones put on later differ (but I could be TOTALLY WRONG on that).
Sucks that we can’t trust the dealerships to care for the cars as much as we do.

 

You don't need to mark the tires. There are already marks on the tires from the factory. On the Dunlop, they are the yellow and red dots. Take the picture of each tire and note the locations of these dots, as they will differ from tire to tire like fingerprints.

 

For the 2016 Camry, only some of the trims had the individual tire readings. The owner's manual mentions that ability in some sections, but not anything about it recognizing if the sensors have moved. The resetting TPMS section reads like the Prius'. I don't see Toyota installing different a different TPMS system between trims. A quick look at Autozone shows the LE and SE using the same TPMS replacements. It is also the same ones used by the 2020 Prius.

 

@Doug McC and @Canvasback if you have an ODB2 bluetooth adapter, there is an app called Tire Assistant that will show TPMS IDs, Pressure and Temperature. blogger link Tire Assistant: App
spacebook face link Tire Assistant - Home
And the ODB2 adapter that's recommended is the ODBLink LX
Tire Assistant: OBD
Tire Assistant is written by the same team that offers the Hybrid Assistant / Reporter app