2022 Prius Prime verses Prius...things I might be overlooking?

About Charge Mode, it can certainly be useful if you are heading somewhere that you can't plug in and you want to use Remote Services. IIRC you need 10% EV for remote A/C to start. Don't forget that you still have a hybrid battery that will kick in once the EV battery is depleted. It isn't that you're either gas or electric, you can still scoot around town on electric just using the hybrid side.

 

You can think of it that way. From what I've seen using the DrPrius app there are two things that jump out of step when using Charge Mode. First, the electricity coming from the Motor Generators MG1 and MG2 and feed to the traction pack is not a steady stream like when plugging into the EVSE. The electric charge in Charge Mode bounces around higher and lower depending on things like if the car is going uphill or gliding downhill or accelerating from a stop light or sign or heading into a gusty wind, etc..
That effects the internal resistance in each of the battery packs cells, which is not good for the traction pack. Plugging in using the supplied EVSE returns the internal resistance to a lower state, which is better of the pack.
The internal resistance of the cells in the pack also get higher but to a lesser extent from regenerative braking since that is not a steady flow of electric charge to the pack either.
I've also noticed that the internal resistance is higher in the winter when temp are below freezing. But it returns to a lower state when the temps get warmer in the spring.

I wouldn't want to use Charge Mode exclusively / everyday to charge the pack from 0 to 80% ! And I haven't done enough testing of Charge Mode to give an estimation of how often and / or how much charge to limit using Charge Mode everyday is someone asked for a recommendation, because that is the only way they could charge the car.

 

I own a Plug in Hybrid and I traded in a 2008 Prius we bought new and kept for 12 years.

In your first post you mention you can't charge at home or at your destination. Those facts would eliminated the Prius Prime from most peoples consideration.

It takes about 2.5 hours to fully charge the Prime with a Level 2 charger and at least 8 hours with a Level 1 charger. It would be imperative you have charging capability at your home and destination. Without this capability you are paying a price for components you will rarely use and the Primes batteries additional weight will hurt your gas mileage.

The regular Prius is simply an outstanding vehicle. I have a large home garden and maintain our landscape. I often drove the Prius to Home Depot, Lowes and our Landscaping outlets with the rear seats and the passenger seat down to carry big loads. It is amazing what can fit into that vehicle. Our little Prius averaged over 50 mpg during the 12 years we owned it, the Subaru Crosstreck, while a great vehicle will not be able to touch that type gas mileage with a 12 foot pole as Salamander_King mentioned in his post.

I installed a Level 2 charger at home to take full advantage of our PHEV (Plug in Hybrid). It take 2.5 hours to fully charge our PHEV which spec for spec is an exact match with the Prius Prime. The Level 1 charger provided with the vehicle took all day to fully charge the vehicle and wasn't efficient for us.

You also mentioned you wanted the gas mileage a Prius gets. In 2019 our requirement coming from a 2008 Prius was that we wanted a Plug in Hybrid that would also meet our old Prius 50 mpg when running on gas.
Let me tell you that is a tall order. Among all the Automakers and vehicles for sale in America there were only 3 vehicles that would average 50 mpg on gas, Plug in and have a range of over 25 miles on a charge, seat at least 4 people, and be a hatchback. This is an engineering feat that few manufacturers and Automakers can meet.
So understand when you speak of a hatchback that has Prius like mileage that is a very demanding criteria that few vehicles can hope to approach.

 

Both Level 1 and Level 2 have the same male plug end that goes into the car receptacle.

Keep in mind that charging the car will take 2.5 hours of your time away from your home. Initially this may seem manageable but over time it might become a big deal to spend 2.5 hours away from home to charge the vehicle.

Another point is that sometimes charging at these stations can cost almost as much as running on gas. We have cheap electric rates where we live but in many parts of the United States electric rates are very high.

The Prius Prime and the Prius are both award winning excellent choices for a vehicle.

Both would make a great vehicle for you.

Before you make your decision, it might be helpful for you to get your expectations in line for the time commitment you would have to make to charge your vehicle if you decide on the Prius Prime. The Prius Prime comes with a level 1 charger that will plug in to a 120v garage outlet and fully charge a Prime in 8 to 9 hours. If your electric rates are high you may not realize any savings on having a vehicle that runs on electric as well as gas. The Level 2 charger will charge your car in about 2.5 hours but requires a 240v outlet like a home dryer uses.

This probably seems very confusing and one of the advantages of the regular Prius is you don't need to worry about any of this - just fill it up with gas and drive it.

I am far from an expert but happy to share my experiences and thoughts with you - 2 years ago I was trying to make the same decision you are now. The reason I chose the PHEV over the regular model was we have extremely low electric rates and I was able to install a Level 2 charger station in the garage myself.
A Prius Prime does offer advantages and choices of either gas or electric for when you drive. For cost savings - low electric rates are a must for cost savings.

 

There's a YouTube video where a guy covers how he's outfitted his PP for camping. You do need something to flatten the area behind the front seats because the folded down rear seats are lower than the cargo floor. On the bright side, since the HVAC is all electric (except when very cold) you can run it without the engine running (assuming the traction battery is charged).

 

Just sharing our thoughts as we considered the PP versus the Prius.

While looking for a PP or a Prius, we were considering the pluses and minuses of each.

In our situation, we could easily charge the PP at home, and it would pretty much take her all the way to work and be on gas on the way home. Most of our errands are done on the way home, so no benefit of EV there. The cost difference we see of vehicles we actually think we could have a shot at seems to put a PP at a premium of about $3k to $5k. ( XLE or better, because she does not like the feel of the cloth ). It gets even worse, because if we get them down on the MSRP markup, they more than double what we have bargained there by low-balling us on the appraisal of the trade in.

So let's just say that we only pay $3000 more for the PP over the Prius. $3000/$4.00 gives us 750 gallons at our local gas prices. In order to save 750 gallons, we would have to use EV for 750gal*50m/gal = 37,500 miles, to recoup the price difference, and that is assuming electricity was free. 37,500/25 = 1500 trips to work. Working 3 days a week and two more days of going to town and back would be 1500 / 5 = 300 weeks, so it would take us 300/52 = 5.7 years to recoup the $3000. Unfortunately, the dealers around here are now holding out for 5000 above MSRP or even more, so it would take us way too many years to recoup the extra cost. For 5.7 or more years, we would also have to suffer the living with reduced cargo space and a heavier car that cannot carry as much weight home.

Even living at a house where we could easily plug the PP in every time we got home, we would rather have the Prius with the extra cargo room. We are only considering the regular Prius now.

If you cannot plug in the PP, you are not going to get any of the day to day benefits of having a PP over a Prius. You will suffer the costs of having a PP over a Prius, though. Even if you do not pay a penny more for the PP than the Prius, you will always suffer the cost of having less cargo space and more weight ( which also effects stopping distance, meaning that a near miss in the Prius could be a collision in the PP.)

And again, this is just how we considered it. Excuse the pun, but YMMV, of course.

 

Hi Daisy,

Some good discussion and advice in this thread. Both choices sound good, and the cost will likely be similar based on tax incentives, etc… so it will likely come down to a few key factors;

1. Is giving up a couple cubic feet of cargo space, or absence of rear wiper or moonroof on Prime a “deal breaker” for you?
2. Since budget is a concern, have you considered the added cost of 17” vs 15” tires between Prius and Prime? (The ride with 17” should be a little harsher as well.)
3. The Prime may be eligible for HOV access, not sure if this applies for you or your area?
4. Which “look” do you prefer?
5. Availability

Even if you rarely make use of the charge ability with Prime, it is nice to have if you happen to be somewhere to get a free charge, like a shopping mall. (It will likely never be cost effective to *pay* for a charge, gas will likely be cheaper given the low capacity/slow charge rate). It will also not “hurt” the Prime to simply drive it as a hybrid, and the hybrid fuel efficiency is very similar. You are simply lugging a battery around, though the tax incentives basically offset the added cost anyway.

It might be worth making a pros/cons list for each based on your criteria (in addition to above) and that might make the decision easier.

Personally, I much prefer the look of the Prime, plus it will likely have a higher resale value later.

In today’s market, it is best to buy new or not at all; used car prices are insane; hopefully your dealer is not selling above MSRP, but certainly worth asking. If you can wait a few months, that is probably best. Ultimately though, it will probably come down to simply what is available and whether waiting is an option for you…

Cheers and good luck!

 

I suppose some people who have the $$ will get the Prime over the regular Prius *just to have the option of plugging it in* and never do - who knows - but there could be a hundred reasons why gasoline becomes unavailable (New Jersey Hurricane Sandy) - and I suspect a segment of PP owners check those boxes. They may charge it once a year bc it was right there but never do, just want the option to exist.

Here’s the problem with the Prius Prime - and I think many will agree - once you get one and drive it long enough, you are sort of “ruined” for other cars in terms of fuel efficiency. Drive a Prime for 2 years then you have to swap to a rental for a few weeks, whether it’s an Altima or mid size SUV - it will feel like you are at the gas station every single day. That is, if you drive a lot and often for your work. I had a rental Kia SUV recently, late model, still around 32mpg highway - but I couldn’t believe how much $$ I was spending on gas. AND HOW OFTEN. If I go to the gas station more than one time every 11-12 days that would be surprising.
In fact - one of my theories why the current gen Prime & Prius have an interior dash button to open the fuel tank is to subtly remind you, psychologically, how few times you press that button in general. I’ve never had a car with a fuel door button. Only levers, or ones that open directly.

One more thing. I’ve had my Prime now just over 2 years. IMO if it just had one of the following: 1) Another 40hp / 40 ft lbs tq, 2) AWD, or 3) 50 miles of plug in charge IT WOULD BE AMAZING.

If I could pick just one of those options I’m not sure where I’d go. Of course being in the northeast the AWD would be a possibility for snow. But then again, Doubling the mileage per charge (assuming it takes no additional time) would be fantastic. But so would 40 more horsepower. The sketchy things about the PP can sometimes be merging onto a very busy highway with many drivers passing you at 70MPH. There have been times I had it in ‘power mode’ and floor it and still the guy behind me has to brake to allow me to merge into the lane.

 

Well, the RAV4 Prime does exist, and does (nearly all) those things. (42 miles is close to 50…)

Otherwise, I do agree with your message… having driven Prius for 16 years now myself, it does seem hard to consider the idea of driving something with “normal” fuel economy… especially with fuel prices today.

 

If you go to tiresize.com and click the Tire Size Comparison button with the blue logo you'll see that because Toyota uses a 215 45R17 tire on the 17" wheels it's a slightly fatter tire, but it's also got a smaller diameter than the 15" wheels with the 195 65R15 tires on it. It's also true that the 17" tires cost more than the 15" tires. The other aside is that most prius owners that buy custom 17 18 or 19" wheels and use low profile tires that fit inside the prius wheel wells say that the handling is much better than with stock 15" they've replaced.
I assume, because I've never used low profile tires that the ride is also stiffer over pumps because of the smaller sidewall height of low profile tires is said to not absorb as much vibration from the road surface as the taller sidewall of the stock 15" tire 195 65R15
It might also be be way the MPG is higher, as the smaller diameter 17" tire goes around more times per mile and effects both speedometer and odometer slightly, though probably not noticeable enough to see without really sensitive equipment to measure the diff.

 

2 hours for ordinary 240-volt households. Taking longer could be the result of a very old home, one somehow still only getting 220 volts that was common when electricity first became available.

240 volts * 15 amps = 3.6 kW ...which is the maximum I routinely see at home. Recharges have never taken more than 2 hours for my Prime.