Are you glad you have a PRIUS=The way Gasoline prices are going UP & UP

Odd, according to the US Energy Information Agency we have pretty much always imported oil, even during the trump years. I can't post a link yet though (too few posts)

 

I kinda wish the gasoline price keeps going up to a level similar to the EU level. For the first time for my PP ownership during the last 5 years, I am enjoying the EV mode costing less than HV mode. This even though I am now paying the highest electricity rate than ever. In the US, we don't have a gasoline shortage problem. We just have too much consumption.

 

I paid $840 for my last heating oil delivery. I’d be happy if the price would go back down. The right way to do it is the ever-unpopular tax at the pump. They can do that without increasing non-transportation costs.

 

as i understand it, petrol is high in europe, but heating oil is artificially held down

 

I’m happy to see people use less oil.
If that happens because gas prices go up, great.
If it happens because oil subsidies go away, great.
If it happens because a carbon fee & dividend plan is implemented double-great.
If it happens because more people buy hybrids, PHEVs & BEVs, great.

 

I must strongly disagree. So does the EIA, see below.

The Keystone Pipeline is running just fine, carrying oil to multiple U.S. Midwest terminals since 2010. Extensions subsequently reached Port Arthur Texas and Houston. It is only the proposed Keystone XL expansion / shortcut (a.k.a. Phase 4) that has been cancelled.

Coal has been shrinking for many years. But despite a lot of posturing about boosting coal by the previous Administration, coal actually shrank faster during that term.

What are your sources? That looks like a lot of political spin.

For net exports, even in 2020 we were not anywhere near the biggest exporter:


Even our gross export rate of somewhat over 3 million barrels/day (including distillate equivalents, not just crude), is far short of Russia's and Saudi Arabia's net export rates.

Our export rate has not dropped much:


While we have long been moving closer to 'oil independence', we reached it only in 2020-21, and then only because the Pandemic's economic slowdown cut consumption more than production, so imports fell. With partial recovery, consumption rose in 2021, but we were still (barely) net exporters. EIA expects more recovery consumption this year, causing more imports, then the higher oils prices to boost production by next year:



"Following its historic shift to being a net exporter of petroleum in 2020, the United States continued to export more petroleum (which includes crude oil, refined petroleum products, and other liquids) than it imported in 2021. According to our February 2022 Short-Term Energy Outlook (STEO), we expect net crude oil imports to increase, making the United States a net importer of petroleum in 2022. ...

Historically, the United States has been a net importer of petroleum. During 2020, COVID-19 mitigation efforts caused a drop in oil demand within the United States and internationally. International petroleum prices decreased in response to less consumption, which diminished incentives for key petroleum-exporting countries to increase production. This shift allowed the United States to export more petroleum in 2020 than it had in the past.

Also in 2020, the difference between U.S. crude oil imports and exports fell to its lowest point since at least 1985. Net crude oil imports subsequently rose by 19% in 2021 to an average of 3.2 million barrels per day (b/d) as crude oil consumption increased in response to rising economic activity. We forecast that the United States will continue to import more crude oil than it exports in 2022, reaching an estimated annual average of 3.9 million b/d. However, we expect net imports to fall to 3.4 million b/d in 2023. We expect the United States to import less crude oil than it exports in 2023 because we expect domestic crude oil production will increase to an all-time high of 12.6 million b/d." [emphasis added]

And the same to you.

 

Good reply. I'm also curious why he thinks increasing imports from Canada (through Keystone) would somehow mean MORE energy independence for us...

If only our "greatest negotiator" trump had been able to convince his own party to pass an infrastructure bill, then maybe we would be further along the EV curve. You shouldn't complain about the lack of infrastructure when your president didn't bother to spend his term fixing it...

 

The annual cost of ownership (depreciation, insurance, financing, gas, maintenance, repairs, taxes) of a Prius is about $5000 according to several sites like Edmunds TCO or intellichoice. If the gas price goes up from $3 to $4 the additional annual cost is just $250 which is 5%. That’s negligible and less even than the inflation. The gas price in USA for most people is not a factor on which car to drive. Or to reword it should not be a factor.

 

I don’t think I have ever heard that from a Prius owner.

 

if he is saying that prius won't save you money on gas, i agree

 

I am always glad I have a Prius, two in fact. My 2003 and my 2017 Prime. The Prime has so many great things going for it gas mpg is but one. Love the ride, the design and the electric efficiency of my Prime. My dealer is great to me as well. The 2003 is for sale.

 

I am just saying gas is not the top reason I bought my Prius back in 2006. Here are the my top reasons I bought and I kept this car for 16 years so far:

1. Technology, back up camera when $70k BMW did not had one, push button, keyless entry, hybrid etc
2. Reliability, very minor issues, never stranded, saved a lot of headaches and time for my personal life instead of dealing with repairs and dealers
3. Environment, at a time V8s dominated as status
4. Gas. Not my primary reason to own this car. At 167000 miles I spent $13k in gas while with a similar size car like a Civic I would spend $21k. It is still $8000 in savings.

Naturally, every Prius owner has his own priorities.

 

I completely agree every Prius owner has their own priorities.

What I was confused by was when you stated:

But then you state it was a factor for you.
I expect gas prices were a factor for most Prius owners.
I understand, and agree if you meant gas prices shouldn’t be the Primary factor.
I disagree though with the suggestion gas prices shouldn’t play any factor.

For me, the factors in my Prius purchase was, Environment, gas, Tech & Cargo space/usability.

 

My top reasons for buying a Prius were reliability, low cost of ownership, and technology.

 

Those are big factors for me, too.

So far in this discussion, I haven't seen mention of the gas price impact to low income people. They are the ones hit hardest because they tend to only be able to afford older less efficient cars and the cost of commuting to their lower income jobs is going to be a much larger portion of their monthly budget.

So, while I'm tempted to gloat and say, "Go ahead and raise the gas prices all you want," I should remember that when that happens, some people are really hurt by those price increases. When I see a '97 Buick Park Avenue or something like that, with three different fender colors, I have to think that that driver isn't happy when gas jumps another 15 cents like it did here a couple days ago.

 

I live 3 miles from work, and I within walking distance to a store.....

I would gladly see gas go to $7 a gallon to keep from having to buy it from.....

Oh wait.
Is that a phone I hear?

Yep.
It's 1973, with your wake-up call.

In 2019, our domestic energy PRODUCTION exceeded CONSUMPTION for the first time since cars had fins on them (1957.)
Despite what P44 said about P46 (never underestimate his ability.....) it would not take much to reach that lofty goal again, albeit probably not with the <$2 gas we enjoyed back then.

You just gotta 'want to'....

 

Ok but what is the point? If it would "not take much" to get back there (assuming we are not there at this moment), then it would also not have much effect on gas prices. Furthermore, unless we institute export controls, our gas prices would still depend on the world price of oil...

 

There’s plenty of USA and Canadian oil reserves to exploit but the clueless aholes in DC would rather buy oil from Russia and the other countries that hate us. Then the supposed climate czar John Kerry, jets around on his Gulfstream V telling us to electrify.
Hopefully the public will remember in November.

 

Just to clarify, the US has imported Russian oil since 1995.

Since imports of Russian oil are small, Russia cannot really use them to push us around (and consequently our banning them would not have much effect on Russia). Russia has way more pull in Europe since they rely heavily on Russian energy.

 

Just drove my PP for some errands ~34 miles total. I saw the gas price posted at $4.50/gal at one station that was $3.49/gal just a week ago. Even though today the temperature has come up now to 19F, my PP was cold-soaked on our driveway last 4 days at temp down to -10F. I had the traction battery 100%, but the car would not go to EV mode. Had to drive on the engine for the first ~16 miles... giving me the average 68.9mpg for the total driven, only ~60% of my lifetime average mpg on this car.