Prius Prime vs Ioniq plug-in

"Engine/transmission wise the Prius Prime does by a large margin. The Ioniq 5 is very slow to shift…"

After test driving the Ioniq, I knew I couldn't live with the inferior engine/transmission design. I agree the touch screen capability is completely inferior but I can turn that off and ignore it. Can't do that with the engine and trans.

 

You need to edit your post or title. From your talk about shifting, I'm assuming you are talking about the Ioniq PHEV, a sedan/hatchback like the Prius. Hyundai is turning the Ioniq name into one for a line of EVs. The Ioniq 5 is the first coming out. It's a BEV SUV.

 

I'm on the verge of buying an Ionic 5 once I decide I can afford it. Test drove one and LOVED it! The Ionic 5 is a BEV crossover style, not a PHEV sedan and, BEVs don't have engines or CVTs.

I'm guessing you meant just plain "Ionic?"

 

Of course, some would argue that the Prius (Prime or regular Hybrid) doesn't have a CVT either. I think Toyota refers to the power split device as an "eCVT" (electronic CVT), that simulates the behavior of a CVT. There are no clutches or belts or gears engaging or disengaging. The Ioniq PHEV has a 6-speed dual-clutch transmission.

 

Of course. I argue the same way, but was just using general terms. It is an eCVT, but an electronically controlled continuously variable transmission is still a continuously variable transmission even though it operates in a completely different way. Hopefully, your clarification will help someone who comes across this thread and hasn't made that discovery yet.

Right. I'd read that, but forgot. It's one of the things that turned me off about the Ioniq.

 

The eCVT is still more complicated than that of a single gear/speed BEV transmission. It isn't mechanically complex, but requires complex software to work. Past Prius models have been recalled over issues with that software and stalling.

Transmission type preference is a regional thing. Buyers in some places like CVTs, even the 'belt and cone' type. In the US, the preference is for the step automatic. It is strong enough that even non-performance cars with a CVT have pseudo gears in the software to mimic the automatic behavior. A DCT isn't a step transmission, but the behavior is close.

With hybrid adoption being low here, parallel hybrids with a traditional transmission type could be more acceptable. DCTs can be hard shifting at lower speeds, but that behavior isn't present in a hybrid using it. The Ioniq is using the DCT to squeeze out more efficiency though, and I think the Elantra hybrid just gets its drivetrain. Hyundai's other hybrids, plus the F150 and perhaps future Tundra, all use a traditional automatic transmission.

The parallel hybrid might even be lower cost. A traditional transmission is going to have higher cost than the transaxle of a power-split hybrid like the Prius. There is simply more steel and other raw materials. But there is more to the system. In order to get the power-split to work properly, the motors are oversized in terms of power. The evidence for that is in the fact the Prius Prime uses the seem motors as the Prius, while the Ioniq PHEV has a more powerful motor than the Ioniq. The Ioniq motor is 32kW, its PHEV one is 45kW, and the Prius traction motor(MG2) is 53kW.

The power-split system also needs the MG1 with 23kW of power to properly work. Being a generator for the series operation of the system is just one of its jobs. Modulating its output is how the system is able to work as a CVT. Plus, it replaces the engine starter. Alternator gets replaced by a DC to DC convertor to down step the hybrid voltage to 12 volts for accessories.

The full parallel hybrid could use the existing starter and alternator, but then all engine starts will be rough ones. For those smooth hybrid engine start ups, a more powerful starter generator is needed, which also replaces the alternator. Hyundai calls theirs HSG, and the power rating I recall seeing for it was 10kW. Less powerful motors cost less, with copper and magnets costing more than steel to start. Then while MG1 needs to be sized to match MG2, an HSG could be used over multiple hybrid models with differing motor sizes.

The Ioniq has a larger battery. 1.56kWh to just under 1kWh for the Prius Li-ion pack. The system charges up the battery, and then draws it down to provide traction. There is no series operation that lets the motor provide motive power while the battery charges at the same time. The system works better with a bigger battery.

While the cost difference between the battery sizes may not be big today, it surely was back when the Prius was completely new. Patents on large NiMH packs may have been a hurdle to full parallel hybrids then. A Hyundai engineer mentioned that controls to allow smooth operation of the parallel hybrid weren't good enough in the beginning. Letting power-split systems be the only option for a full hybrid back then.

 

for a phev, i'd likely go with prime, unless there's a roomier competitor.

for a bev, the ionique 5 would get a hard look, but not relevent to this discussion.

 

A power-split system of the Prius will give the driving experience of a BEV.

The output of the Ioniq PHEV's motor goes through the transmission, which is why it doesn't need to be as powerful as the motor in Prius Prime. Hyundai chose to let it be more of a blended PHEV than the Prime though. It doesn't have a "pure" EV mode, and will probably have the engine come on more often. It depends on the route and driver. Some Ioniq PHEV report not having the engine come on with their daily drive.

 

I tried both before choosing the Prime. I liked many things about the Ioniq PHEV better than the Prime (some aesthetic, some ergonomic) but I found it much easier to provoke a gas engine start in the Ioniq. Also, even avoiding an engine start and staying in EV mode, the experience was more to my liking in the Prime than the Ioniq. If the Prime didn’t exist or was 10k$+ vs the Ioniq, I’d have chosen the latter. But the price difference was not very much, so I chose the system that better mimicked a BEV one and decided I could live with the aesthetic and ergonomic quirks. Nine months and 40000kms later, I remain very satisfied with my choice. If the Ioniq BEV had had 50-60 extra miles of rated range, though, I’d very likely have gone with that.

 

You probably need that with a longer cold season.

South of the border, the 170 miles is enough for most households. A large majority of a car's time and mileage is in commuting and local errands. It won't be a family's trip car, but less battery really helps with the price.

 

True. I have an unusual commute (200 miles round trip). Were it not for Quebec winters (and this one has been colder than usual) and the extra charge time that accompanies it (I have potential but not guaranteed access to charging at work on campus), I might have lived with the shorter range anyway. But the price jump, at the time, to a BEV with a longer range was more than I was willing to pay. Next one will be a BEV for sure, though.

 

Are they still selling Ioniq PHEV? I have considered it, but the availability was low even before the chip shortage. I could never find one to test drive. PP on the other hand until last year, was abundant. With the huge Toyota rebate offer, it was a no-brainer which was a better buy.

That being said, if we are talking about a BEV Ioniq 5, then that is a totally different car. PP is not even in the same class. I like the look of the Kia EV6 better than Ioniq 5, but that doesn't matter much for I am not likely to find either of them in our local dealer's lot anytime soon.

 

The Ioniq hybrid had a rough start in terms of supply. Word at the time was that Hyundai didn't have the battery supply lined up for the demand. Whether that is the reason for the low sales is still a question. There is now an Elantra hybrid available, and a line Ioniq brand BEVs, so the original Ioniq may not see a redesign. The Electric one is still listed as a 2021MY on the site.

The Ioniq PHEV is listed as 2022MY at Hyundai's site. Tucson and Santa Fe also have a PHEV option there. The Sonata PHEV is gone, and Kia Optima, now called K5, doesn't even have a hybrid for the US. Other markets at least had a wagon PHEV of the Optima.

 

I just checked the Hyundai website. It is listing two 2022 Ioniq PHEVs in my area. I may arrange to test drive it if they are still available.

 

Wait, is Ioniq PHEV a hatchback? If it is a sedan with a trunk, then that is a dealbreaker for me. I had to turn down a great offer for the Honda Clarity because of that reason.

 

Was looking at the Kona Electric, and the Limited with larger screen only had wired Carplay. Wireless for the lower trim. Until recently, you couldn't get Carplay in a Prius Prime with the large screen. That head unit couldn't support it. Toyota's spec page doesn't say if it is wireless or wired.

It's a hatchback.