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Can you replace just the valve stem on the TPMS?

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by The Professor, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. The Professor

    The Professor Senior Member

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    So today I messed up while parking at the side of the road. I sheered off some of the valve stem on a front wheel. The amount that's sheered off isn't much - about the same length as the 2/3 of the cap. It's also kinked and so I want to replace it.

    Does anyone know if Toyota can replace just the valve stem part?

    A quick Google seems to suggest you have to buy a whole new TPMS for the wheel, which costs a fortune.

    However, looking at pictures of the TPMS unit, it looks like the valve stem simply screws into the main part.

    I was hoping to not have to spend a fortune for just a valve.
     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    If it is a TOYOTA OEM TPMS ( I think made by Pacific, IIRC), then the answer is NO. The TPMS sensor and the valve stem can not be separated. If it is aftermarket TPMS like Autel MX sensor, then YES, they can be separated and just valve stem can be replaced.

    One shown in the photo is the Autel MX sensor with a Press-on valve stem. You don't even need a screwdriver to detach the valve stem.

    upload_2022-1-10_16-43-2.png
     
  3. The Professor

    The Professor Senior Member

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    Thank you. Alas my valve stem doesn't look like that. It doesn't have a hex nut at the base. The TPMS came with the car new so I assume it's a Toyota one.

    Ah well. It is what it is I guess. Must remember to drive properly!
     
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  4. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    You should probably replace the entire set; since the batteries on them are more than half way gone anyway. They were $65 USD for a set on amazon.
     
  5. The Professor

    The Professor Senior Member

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    I've been pondering exactly that. The OEM ones are the equivalent of $160 per wheel here according to the two websites I checked. I've yet to actually ask the dealership though.

    I currently use a stand-alone TPMS anyway, so that I can see the actual pressure on each wheel, so another option would just be to remove the OEM TPMS altogether and fit normal valves. Anyone any thoughts on that?
     
  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, if you are using an external TPMS sensor, there is no point in having internal TPMS sensors too. In the US, by law, tire shops can not replace working TPMS sensors with a standard valve on a car. But if I just bring a tire, they will switch it.

    Why is the price so high? Does $160/wheel include installation? It was not for Prius, but the last OEM sensors I bought for Honda (also made by Pacific, I think), I paid less than $10/pc from eBay.
    toyota tpms | eBay

    You can also go with aftermarket TPMS, like Autel MX, but then you will need it to be programmed. Where I live, it cost ~$50/wheel for aftermarket non-programmable TPMS sensor parts and installation at a tire shop. They don't usually stock OEM sensors. If I take my car to a dealer to install an OEM sensor, they charge $100-$150/wheel.

    I had no TPMS on my winter wheels for 3+ years and used external TPMS sensors. But I recently had a shop install the Autel MX sensors which came with the TPMS tool I bought and cloned IDs from summer wheels into my winter wheels. The cost of TPMS installation is the same as installing a new tire. I was going to wait till the next set of tires, but I am not driving much nowadays, If I waited for the next set of tires, it will be several more years.
     
    #6 Salamander_King, Jan 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
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  7. The Professor

    The Professor Senior Member

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    The price includes removal of wheel, tyre, the old sensor and stem, the cost of the new sensor and stem, refitting it all, removing the old sensor from the car's ECU via TechStream, and adding the new one, road testing, valet, and a cup of coffee while I'm waiting. It's the standard OEM Toyota additional cost.

    The going rate for a local garage swapping the old one for an after-market one, and just cloning the ID of the old one, is the equivalent of about around $75 (£55).

    The issue with not using the internal TPMS is that it will display the warning in the car if it can't receive a signal, so the car will fail its next annual test.

    The problem with the external TPMS is that the cap threads are made from brass and the valve stem on the wheel is made from aluminium. The two different metals in contact with each other end up corroding each other and make removing the TPMS caps very difficult. They are also bulky and protrude a lot, which contributed to the situation I'm in now.

    But, the problem with the internal TPMS is that it doesn't provide much information. It tends to trigger a warning when the cold weather comes in, and it never tells you which wheel is at fault or by how much. I know there's ways around the cold weather issue (resetting the TPMS with lower pressures), but it still sucks. The external ones show you the individual pressure and temperature for each wheel.

    I wish there was a way of displaying the pressures from the internal sensors, as they appear to be available on the K-Bus on TechStream, and by the aftermarket TPMS reprogrammers when held directly against the caps (I was hoping somebody would use the same technology in a simple display to sit inside the vehicle), but the car doesn't display it natively. Apps like Torque Pro on Android can't access the K-Bus so OBDII isn't of any use either.
     
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  8. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    I was wonder if you had annual inspections that would compromise your plan on replacing it with standard valve stems.:(
    On my 2021 LE, which I think is the equivalent to your excel - the tire pressures show up on the Toyota app only. You may try your Entune app if your paying for connectivity. If this was me; I'd take it to a large independent tire shop to get it replaced and cloned.
    I used to use a cheap knock-off set of these:

    on my old 2012 Prius C and my other car w/o TPMS. Just a quick walk around the car for a quick visual check. It was made of molded cheap rubber/plastic. When I replaced the tires, I specifically asked the tire mechanics to use the shortest valve stem the had, so these things don't protrude out so far.
     
  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I agree with all of your points. I have gone through the same thought process and experience with my own cars but with slightly different outcomes.
    1. The price of TPMS installation: I see that your $160/wheel is including installation and OEM TPMS. That cost is similar (although on the higher end) to what I found in the US Toyota dealer replacing OEM TPMS. And your local garage job $75 for an aftermarket TPMS is again similar (although on the higher end) to what I found in the US at an independent shop. Most of the cost comes from the actual dismounting and remounting and balancing tires. In the US, the cost of installation (or replacement) of an internal TPMS sensor is identical to the cost of installation of a new tire. If you can provide TPMS sensors purchased online at the time you must purchase new tires, then you can save a lot. As pointed out, the online purchase of OEM TPMS sensors is ~$10 each in the US.
    2. Failing annual inspection due to non-functioning internal TPSM: I thought similar issues with my first internal TPMS equipped vehicle, thinking I must have functional TPMS to pass the annual inspection. The law maybe different in UK, but at least in the US, most of the states that require annual inspection do not require the functional TPMS. Only a few states actually require the functional TPMS in order to pass the inspection. My state does not require it although at first, I thought it did. So, for my winter wheels without TPMS sensors inside (meaning TPMS warning light is lit on the dash all the time) was OK.
    3. Problem with external TPMS: Yes, I have had the external TPMS corroding onto the metal valve stem before. BTW, this can also happen with decorative metal valve caps. I destroyed one set of external TPMS after a single winter due to this galvanic corrosion. The simple solution I found effective in preventing this galvanic corrosion was to apply the thread of the TPMS sensor cap with anti-corrosion spray. I did that once when I changed a tire in winter and whenever I had to remove the sensor cap to top off the air. Never had the galvanic corrosion again. My problem with the external TPMS was more of the quality and durability of the sensors. With our very harsh winter and road salt, I often had the external sensor not lasting more than 1 year or so. And when one sensor fails, the entire set including the display unit on the dash had to be replaced. Granted, it was only ~$30 for an entire set at Amazon, still, it was becoming more of an annoyance. Thus the recent effort to install internal TPMS sensors on the winter wheels.
    4. Problem with internal TPMS: I understand where you are coming from. The Pruis's dumb TPMS has very little utility in topping off the tire or knowing how high or how low the tire pressures are. I have been using my TPMS tool to check the tire pressure off from the internal TPMS sensor signal. This makes it much easier than using a manual tire pressure gauge. I also have used an OBDII adaptor and an APP Tire Assistant. It can display ECU data from the internal TPMS sensors for the sensor ID, pressure, temperature. The caveat is that it is available only in the Android App store and it can not be used for getting live data while driving similar to using Techstream. Also, the TPMS data do not indicate the location of the four corners unless you specifically change the ECU program to correspond to the correct location on the diagram. But the worst part is that for an unknown reason, the Psi value is somewhat off from the live data read off from the TPMS sensor using the TPMS trigger/read tool. I think this is because the stored data in ECU is somewhat older than the live data the sensor when the sensor is triggered by the TPMS tool.
    5. Other methods for monitoring TPMS: I have read that Carista App also has the TPMS information capability but did not find that to be the case at least not on my app when I used the app with a free trial subscription specific to PP. For Prius, the only way I know how to extract the live TPMS data off from ECU via OBDII port while driving is using ScanGauge II with X-gauge program PID for TPMS. But just for live tire pressure info, not many people are willing to pay ~$150. I did, but after finding out how tedious using X-gauge program PID on the tiny antiquated display of ScanGauge II was, I totally dismissed using it.
    Here is the screengrab of the TPMS Tool reading off of the internal sensors and by the Tire Assistant APP via OBDII connection read 1 min apart. Note that the location of the sensor on the Tire Assistant App is wrong and the Psi reading is not the same as what was reported by the TPMS tool.

    upload_2022-1-11_11-27-34.png
    upload_2022-1-11_11-28-35.png

    upload_2022-1-11_11-31-8.png
     
    #9 Salamander_King, Jan 11, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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  10. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    I am a little confused by the discussion about getting TPMS pressure info on the Prime. I just use the Carista app with their OBD-II dongle. The tire pressures are on a TPMS screen under the service menu. It lists the ID and pressure for each tire (it is up to you to figure out which ID is on which tire). This functionality is part of the free features that does not require a subscription.

    Are people talking about something else, or what? Sorry if I am off base here.
     
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    That's funny. When I used the Carista App on my previous 2020 PP during the free subscription period to customize it, I specifically looked for the TPMS function but could not find it. I have read in another thread that TPMS functionality was added for PP at some point in updated app, but that was not available when I was looking for it. I will check again with my current 2021 PP. If it does display TPMS info for you, can you display it while driving? An app like Tire Assistant I mentioned above does not allow live data streaming when the car goes into the READY mode for safety reasons. As I understand it same is true for the TechStream.
     
  12. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    When I got Carista around three years ago to do the backup beep fix on my 2017 Advanced, I believe that the TPMS menu was there at that time. See https://blog.caristaapp.com/easy-to-use-tpms-tools-for-toyota-from-carista-c1811bb50c38 dated September 21, 2018. I think that reading the pressures is free, but if you want to register new sensors, that requires a subscription. I think that the app does not support while-you-are-driving live displays. The TPMS stuff is under the "Advanced Service" menu.
     
    #12 CharlesH, Jan 11, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, that was my understanding as well. But when I played with Carista to customize my 2020 PP, I did not find the TPMS info on my phone APP. I might have simply overlooked it. If it is a free part of the App, I can check it again later. In any case, thank you for confirming that it does not let you monitor the tire pressure while driving. I think, for safety reasons, that functionality is more important than the ability to check the TPMS sensor data when you are parked.
     
  14. The Professor

    The Professor Senior Member

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    If Carista can read the TPMS data via OBDII, then surely Torque Pro can?

    SM-T500 ?