1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Featured Elon Musk opposes all EV tax credits, subsidies, charging infrastructure, and government spending

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Gokhan, Dec 8, 2021.

Page 1 of 2
  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,960
    1,950
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Elon Musk must be a hardcore conservative. He is opposing all EV-related government spending without exception. He says the proposed bill by the Biden administration should be entirely canned.

    Elon Musk Comes Out Against Federal Electric-Vehicle Spending
    Tesla chief criticized a signature Biden administration spending package during an interview at The Wall Street Journal’s CEO Council Summit

    By Rebecca Elliott
    Dec. 7, 2021 10:46 am ET


    The Tesla CEO railed against a Biden Administration spending bill, including subsidies aimed at supporting the adoption of electric vehicles.

    Elon Musk took aim at a signature Biden administration legislative proposal and said China is adjusting to its growing position as a dominant world power in an interview with The Wall Street Journal.

    The Tesla Inc. chief executive criticized federal efforts meant to spur electric-vehicle adoption, including a bill that would boost incentives for buying battery-powered cars.

    The House has passed a roughly $2 trillion social-spending and climate bill championed by President Biden that would give consumers a tax credit of as much as $12,500 if they buy an electric vehicle assembled by union workers using American-built batteries. Vehicles made in nonunion factories, such as Tesla’s, would qualify for a smaller credit.

    The Senate has yet to vote on the measure.

    “Honestly, I would just can this whole bill,” Mr. Musk said during a virtual appearance at the WSJ’s CEO Council Summit, speaking from a factory Tesla is building in the Austin, Texas, area.

    He also said that federal funding for electric-vehicle charging is unnecessary. The infrastructure package that Mr. Biden signed into law in November includes $7.5 billion to expand the nation’s network of electric-vehicle charging stations.

    “Do we need support for gas stations? We don’t,” he said. “Delete it.”

    Mr. Musk, who is often critical of U.S. authorities, including President Biden, has struck a more conciliatory tone when it comes to the Chinese government.

    “There are a lot of people in the government in China who kind of grew up…with China being a small economy and maybe who feel like China was pushed around a lot. They haven’t fully appreciated the fact that China really is going to be the big kid on the block,” he said.

    Mr. Musk added that Tesla has a good relationship with China, home to the company’s largest vehicle factory by output.


    Tesla CEO Elon Musk talks about what’s next for Tesla and SpaceX, the role of government in business and provides an update on the Starship launch. Photo: Ralph Alswang for the Wall Street Journal

    “I don’t mean to endorse everything China does any more than I would, say, endorse everything the United States does, or any country,” he said.

    In the interview, Mr. Musk touched on other issues, saying that CEO is a made-up title, and that he splits his time roughly equally between running Tesla and his rocket company, Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX.

    “I triage the tasks and try to do the things that are most useful,” he said.

    Mr. Musk said SpaceX’s work developing its Starship rocket absorbs more of his mental focus than any other single initiative. Starship, designed to be a reusable orbital rocket, is such a tough challenge it makes him wonder whether he can pull off the project, he said.

    Building the rocket could reduce the cost of getting to orbit by a factor of 100 or more, he said, adding that creating such a space vehicle could be the difference between whether humanity does or doesn’t become a multiplanetary species.

    —Micah Maidenberg contributed this article.
     
    #1 Gokhan, Dec 8, 2021
    austingreen likes this.
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,175
    8,353
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    iirc - haven't United States Auto industry lobbyists worked hard to ensure future subsidies only go to Union companies?
    This could be the kiss of death for Toyota Nissan electric products as well - knowing your competition has a $7,000-$8,000 price advantage over you
    .
     
    #2 hill, Dec 8, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
  3. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    Look up the term "idiot savant".
     
    #3 sam spade 2, Dec 8, 2021
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,664
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Looks like 'pulling up the ladder you just climbed up.'

    I'm not enthused about the EV subsidies.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #4 bwilson4web, Dec 8, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
    Rmay635703 likes this.
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,449
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    He is also against tax increases, so this isn't a surprise.
     
    #5 Trollbait, Dec 8, 2021
  6. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,312
    4,301
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    His position has always been, eliminate subsidies. Gas subsidies, EV subsidies, coal subsidies, etc.
    If EVs get subsidies in the amount of X, while fossil fuels have subsidies of 25X, it is a loss for progress.
    If you get rid of X for EV and eliminate 25X for fossil fuels, it is a huge win for progress.
     
    #6 Zythryn, Dec 8, 2021
    austingreen likes this.
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,137
    50,052
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    he's an enigma for sure
     
    #7 bisco, Dec 8, 2021
  8. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,609
    1,624
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    He protested “less publicly” when his company was nearing failure or bankruptcy once a week .

    He has became increasingly vocal after his companies success rose, more vocal after selling his crypto, more vocal after selling his stock.

    Classic case of biting the hand that fed you once you feel “independent “
     
    #8 Rmay635703, Dec 8, 2021
    Prashanta likes this.
  9. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    3,760
    1,680
    0
    Location:
    Sanford, NC
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited
    Oh please don't install chargers that competitors cars might use, I want to maintain my current competitive advantage .....
     
    #9 mikefocke, Dec 8, 2021
    Prashanta and dbstoo like this.
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,175
    8,353
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Anyone wonder why we don't see Toyota whining & crying to get rid of subsidies? Maybe because hydrogen dies an instant death without them? Even tho Toyota typically ranks as number one or number 2 Automotive producer? Being nowhere near bankruptcy seems to have nothing to do with belly'ing up to the free money trough.
     
    #10 hill, Dec 8, 2021
    JeffHastings likes this.
  11. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,609
    1,624
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    Musk was happy to get subsidies and government loans before 2014

    What changed?
     
    #11 Rmay635703, Dec 8, 2021
    Prashanta likes this.
  12. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    1,953
    1,797
    0
    Location:
    Southern MN
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    II

    His vast wealth changed...:whistle:

    Not a fan of Elon these days, I'm sorry to admit. Not sure I ever have been though...haha. However, I do respect what he has been able to accomplish.
     
    #12 farmecologist, Dec 8, 2021
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,664
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    1. Existing manufacturers decided to NOT make credible EVs. So Elon 'carpe diem.'
    2. Tesla at Elon's direction, paid off their government loan early even with early pay-off penalties. The loan terms were too onerous. But the others defaulted.who took those loans defaulted.
    Bob Wilson
     
    #13 bwilson4web, Dec 8, 2021
    iplug and Zythryn like this.
  14. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,312
    4,301
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Nothing changed. Musk ALWAYS disliked subsidies. He took them originally because
    A) Oil already got (and still gets) subsidies, so if those subsidies weren't going away EVs needed some for an almost level playing field.
    B) The Fed loan he got, contained stipulations that he felt slowed down Tesla's mission, thus he paid it off early (including a penalty). This is also the reason he turned down the recent German offered subsidy. He learned from the first one.
     
    #14 Zythryn, Dec 8, 2021
    JeffHastings, iplug and bwilson4web like this.
  15. Moving Right Along

    Moving Right Along Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    690
    541
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    When your company is outselling every other company in your industry by a wide margin even though most other companies have incentives to buy their cars that your company no longer has, you don’t need subsidies. And clearly, taking away the subsidies from the competition would give your company a further advantage. So it makes perfect business sense that Elon Musk is against subsidies.
     
    #15 Moving Right Along, Dec 9, 2021
    douglasjre, jzchen and dbstoo like this.
  16. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    1,365
    732
    0
    Location:
    Near Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE Premium
    From the first post:
    He also said that federal funding for electric-vehicle charging is unnecessary. The infrastructure package that Mr. Biden signed into law in November includes $7.5 billion to expand the nation’s network of electric-vehicle charging stations.

    “Do we need support for gas stations? We don’t,” he said. “Delete it.”

    Anyone who has taken business classes understand the value of "barriers to entry". That's a fancy way of saying that anything that makes it hard for your competitor is good for you. It's the key to the success of many monopolies. In this case Tesla has already benefited from those subsidies to build a Tesla centric infrastructure, and it's quite understandable that he wants the door closed to his competitors.
     
    #16 dbstoo, Dec 9, 2021
    douglasjre and Prashanta like this.
  17. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,960
    1,950
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    He has proved to be a hardcore conservative in sheep's clothing. I should have guessed that when he ditched California for Texas.

    He made some silly comments in that video. No one disputes that the government debt is a bad thing, but both the Republicans and Democrats keep adding to it through tax cuts, increased military spending, increased services, etc., depending on their agenda. Neither party genuinely aims to reduce it.

    The silliest comments were about building double-deck freeways and tunnels. They would cost at least $1 billion per mile. Moreover, all they would do would be to further increase sprawling and add to existing problems of large metropolitan areas. He criticizes the government debt and incentives in the order of millions of dollars and then he says tens of trillions of dollars of ultra-expensive grade-separated roads should be built. He has absolutely no idea of what he is talking about. Stick with sh*t-posting on Twitter about Dogecoin, your ex-girlfriend, cave rescuers, etc.
     
    #17 Gokhan, Dec 9, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
    Prashanta and bisco like this.
  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,432
    6,916
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    He got to the top of the ladder and started pulling it up after him.

    Was anyone surprised?
     
    #18 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Dec 9, 2021
    Prashanta, Trollbait and Rmay635703 like this.
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,665
    15,664
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    My understanding is a single lane size, Boring company tunnel costs $15 million per mile. So two tunnel lanes would be $30 million per mile.

    Tunnels become reserved, high-speed lanes. Eliminating manual operation, they would very safe. However, ICE vehicles might be barred as a tank of gasoline or diesel would be a significant risk.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #19 bwilson4web, Dec 9, 2021
  20. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    5,608
    3,788
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Tunnels will still need to be built to safety specs for ventilation, rescue, and battery/vehicle fires.
     
    #20 fotomoto, Dec 9, 2021
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2