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Engine and battery supposedly shot (but I'm skeptical)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by PublicRadio, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. PublicRadio

    PublicRadio Junior Member

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    I'll try to make this concise: I drove my car 1000 miles past the time it was due for an oil change, and one day I turned the car on to find a check engine light, and the big red triangle. I had the engine codes, and I will try to get them again and post them later in this thread.

    I towed the car to a dealership that does repairs, and they told me the car, which was supposed to have 4 quarts of oil in it, was down to a half a quart. They said one of the cylinders was misfiring and one of the cams was in the wrong position, and that I was going to need a whole new engine. They also said the error related to the battery indicates the battery will also need to be replaced.

    I had a bad experience with the dealership leading up to this, and I decided I didn't trust them, so I towed the car home, drained the oil, changed the oil filter and put new oil in the car.

    When I turn on the car, I still have the big red triangle (which doesn't surprise me), and the touch screen indicates that the battery is very low. Before towing the car, I had run the engine for a few minutes and it appeared to charge up the battery.

    I talked to three friends who work on cars, and they were all pretty skeptical of the dealership's diagnosis. However, none of them work on hybrids, so I thought I'd ask all of you for advice:

    1. I don't know how I can troubleshoot the engine with this other battery problem. My friends said to clear the code, drive around on the new oil and listen for any engine problems. The engine never sounded bad before and the car does drive, but I'm worried that if I drive it to troubleshoot the engine, it'll die in the middle of the road because of the battery.

    2. What if I replace the hybrid battery, and the car is still undriveable because of this oil issue? I got a quote for around $1,500, from Green Bean. I suppose the next step down from that is to buy a battery and install it myself (I see batteries on Ebay selling from around $450 to $800, but I don't know if theat's a good way to go). I could even go to the auto yard and pull some batteries out of old Priuses, test those for a charge and try one — but If it then fails quickly, that's probably a lot of wasted effort.

    3. I have even heard of people identifying individual cells that are bad and only replacing those. I raised this question to the mechanic at the dealership, and he claimed that this was really dangerous to do at home.
    If I'm asking questions that have been answered a million times, please just point me to the right threads. In the meantime, I will try to get those engine codes. Thanks.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how much oil came out when you drained it?

    it could certainly need everything the dealer said, but i don't know how your friends or anyone here can determine whether they are correct or not until you have the codes.

    one thing we can tell you is that going a thousand miles past oil change scedule did not affect anything, but if you don't check your oil level frequently between changes, that can spell disaster.

    if you do need abattery, your best bet is new cells from 'newpriusbatteries.com'
    then you won't have to worry about constant failure. $1,600. diy, and there's even a guy in texas selling the kit he bought for $1,200. plus shipping because he didn't need it.

    the answer to the rest of your questions lies in getting all the trouble codes.
     
    #2 bisco, Nov 24, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  3. PublicRadio

    PublicRadio Junior Member

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    thanks for the replies. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that going over-schedule is less of an issue than regularly checking my oil. I will admit that I do not check my oil between changes, so I will need to start doing that.

    As for the codes, I only have two now: P0A80: Hybrid battery pack deterioration; and P3000: High Voltage Battery Fault, HV Battery Malfunction.

    In the past, I have had another code. I think it was P0011: Camshaft Position “A” - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1). I don't remember which bank or position, but I'm pretty sure it was this code. I was on the road and I had to park the car at this really weird angle, and I thought this threw something off with the car. After this, I was having a rough idle — but then, as I drove, it went away, and the code went away.

    The mechanic did say something about one of the cams being in the wrong position, but I'm not getting that error code right now. All I've done so far is change the oil, and the oil filter, and idled the engine for a while. So, as of right now, the car is not detecting any engine problems—just the failing battery.

    Thanks for the tip about the $1,600 DIY battery. Green Bean quoted me $1,400 for a reconditioned battery, with a 3-year warranty. I think I would be more likely to go with this, but I'm still interested to hear people's advice.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the only problem with reconditioned is reliability. it's hit or miss, but i understand wanting to keep costs down on a 14 year old car
     
  5. PublicRadio

    PublicRadio Junior Member

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    Oh, and the mechanic said there was less than a quart of oil in the car, and when I drained it, I would say yes, this was how much oil came out.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    With the battery code you've got, probably you do need a battery.

    The cam timing code might be an issue with the variable valve timing actuator, on the end of the intake camshaft. It works with oil pressure, and there is a little filter for it, which in Gen 2 is accessible from a plug on the front of the engine. (Ahem, the "side" of the engine that faces the "front" of the car.) I would make sure the engine has the right amount of clean oil and see if the timing code comes back. Maybe clean or replace the filter for it and see if the code comes back. Even if the VVT actuator itself is shot, I'm pretty sure you could manage to replace that without much more disassembly than getting the valve cover off. Doesn't sound like a toss-the-whole-engine issue to me. (But if there are other engine issues too, I guess it could get to that point.)
     
  7. PublicRadio

    PublicRadio Junior Member

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    Thanks. I drained the old oil, changed the filter, and the engine is filled to the brim with clean oil. And since I'm not getting the code, I bet you're right that the cam issue was related to the low oil pressure.

    I'm really surprised that the Prius wouldn't have a 'check oil' light. The lesson I've learned is to frequently check it myself. Green Bean is coming tomorrow to install a new battery. Thanks so much for the advice.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a lot of people have been surprised by the lack of that feature.

    if the battery was charging, and the engine was running properly, it's hard to say if you need anything, but so be it if you got the battery code.
     
  9. ammdb

    ammdb Active Member

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    No way a car would be down that much oil, unless it had an obvious leak, like a pool of oil under the car when parked, or burned a lot of oil leaving a big cloud of blue smoke in its wake every time it accelerates. It's also possible that not enough oil was put in during the last change, but then you'd have symptoms right away, like hearing cams tapping and a check engine light.

    I've gone way past the recommended oil change interval a time or two, and never had a noticeable drop in oil level on the dip stick. Once after a change in my '91 Subaru I had a bad oil plug gasket and didn't get very far down the road before is showed signs of low oil. Fixed the plug, refilled the oil, and dove the car another 15 years before trading it for a Prius C. :)
     
    #9 ammdb, Nov 28, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  10. 2010moneypit?

    2010moneypit? Active Member

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    All cars can potentially use oil. It is our job as a driver to check it. I often run into this problem at work drivers tell me it’s not their job to check the oil. Or they tell me it is out of their job description. I always tell them if they can put gas in the car they can add oil if needed.
     
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  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    So you had the car towed to the dealer before you even checked the oil level on the dipstick?

    HOW MANY MILES ON ENGINE?

    It’s an an oil eating little monster because it’s been driven often with low oil and the piston rings are shot.

    most common g2 car we see on this repair site is it’s eating oil bad and the original hybrid battery is shot.

    So yes it prob needs a new engine and a new hybrid battery. Anything you want to know has been answered thousands of times by looking at old posts. Use the search forum link up top and search old posts. Search:

    hybrid battery


    Btw what’s filling the engine oil to the brim mean?
     
  12. nancytheprius

    nancytheprius Active Member

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    was going to ask this as well
     
  13. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    The VVT system changes the intake camshaft position - in relation to the crankshaft. If there was a fault with the system that set P0011, then your mechanic was correct - it was in the "wrong" position. Top two choices are that the VVT solenoid is got varnish and/or some carbon grit built up that caused it to stick "on", or the VVT actuator (intake cam sprocket assembly) has some varnish and/or grit that caused it to stick.

    Both can result from inadequate maintenance.
    If you're going to keep this car then you can pay someone else to fix the HV battery, but you are the only one who can keep on top of the oil.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.