Featured Toyota bZ4X Specifications Revealed

I drove a car (Porsche Tiptronic) with paddle shifters for years. I replaced it with eCVT cars (v and Rav4h) and never used any of the manual settings on those cars nor wanted them. I did use them on my Porsche but only when I was playing boy racer.

When and why do you use them on a Toyota?

 

There is a steep down hill on my commute that ends in a T-section. I use the paddle shifters to control engine braking on it and other steep declines. I could just use the shifter, but it is easier and safer to use the paddles. I'll also use them to slow down for regular stops at times.

I put paddle shifters above smart key systems in desirable features.

 

I would say without an ICE there does not seem to be much reason to shift into virtual gears. There is no engine braking only regen, although I suppose that could be dumped if the battery is full ;-) There is a reason to have different levels of regen. Many of us prefer full regen, which allows easier one pedal driving. It is fairly natural to anyone that has driven a stick shift. Some prefer lighter regen, or need more practice. I can't imagine paddle shifters make much of a difference in terms of sales since the best selling bevs don't have them.

 

Oh my goodness!

I've driven a stick since I was 3 years old (I'm not kidding). I owned sticks until I bought my Prius in 2004. And one-pedal driving is an absolutely horrible abomination to me. I'd rather have no-pedals = no-torque (coast) than even the little bit of regen you get in a Prius, much less that awful one-pedal nonsense.

So, just because we've driven a stick and know what we're doing with one doesn't mean we think one pedal driving is either easier or more natural.

 

This has very much been our experience as well and others we have talked to about attempting the same transition.

Only a few grey hairs so far, but have had much experience driving a car and riding motorcycles with manual transmissions over my earlier motoring years. One-pedal driving is much better. Not only is it easier and more natural, but much safer. It takes time to move the foot from gas pedal to brake, and tenths of seconds matter here with emergency braking. With one pedal driving, one is already aggressively braking before the foot can transition to the brake pedal proper.

It took me about 1 day to get used to it and about the same to realize how much better it was. My wife didn't think she would every get used to one pedal driving, but by the next week she has maintained as well that she can't imaging going back.

 

A local report - a lot of what they say has been mentioned in this thread:

Toyota BZ4X: 10 things you need to know about Toyota's first global electric car - Drive

 

Prius Prime EPA is 25. I get 32-36. If this is EPA 250 and the same thing holds, that's 320-360.

I still see little evidence that it's LFP but if it is, I don't see how it's as light as it is.

 

We are all familiar with how Toyota is strategic and doesn't bother with tactical maneuvers like other automakers. They have their own approach, their own timeline, and their own goals. Some other new chemistry with similar attributes is quite realistic.

Change is coming. Those that still believe the playbook will be the same are in for quite a surprise. It's a new game... the equivalent of practicing a lot at playing checkers, then going to a tournament to compete in chess. Think about what truly matters.

 

Those best selling BEVs also offer real one pedal driving. Not all EVs do. Then not all drivers are able or willing to adapt to one peddle driving.

You admit there is a reason to have different levels of regen. Paddle shifters make that easier without the need for taking the hands off the wheel.

That one company contains its costs by limiting its inventory of different parts. It cut out a whole lot more physical knobs and switches than just paddle shifters. Which has turned off some buyers. It hasn't hurt sales, because its potential competitors haven't taken the EV segment seriously until now. On the other hand, Toyota does have paddle shifters in its parts bin, the Camry hybrid XSE even uses them to variable B function, so adding such to a BEV isn't a huge expense.

LFP specific energy is 1.8Wh/kg to a NMC Li-ion's 2.6. So even with a larger usable buffer, the battery pack is still going to be heavier and bigger to match a Li-ion. It's possible the marketing materials talking about a slim pack is an exercise in pys-ops because it actually isn't slim. It has me thinking the pack is Li-ion for space reasons.

 

You seem to have lost 2 orders of magnitude there (180 and 260), and those aren't hard-numbers anyway. As a pack, even using Tesla's new 4680 cells, the semi-truck battery pack is a reported 208Wh/kg, and I think that's NMC.

 

LFP doesn't slow down charging rate as SOC rises. In fact, it can speed up in the right circumstances. So compares based on past paradigms don't work well.

 

Found this charging curve for the Model 3 with LFP battery.

 

One thing that surprised me is the voltage. I think Porsche was the first car maker to have 800V batteries (most EVs use 400V). This doesn't require special batteries--it is just a different way of hooking them up in serial. There has to be switching to allow charging in 400V mode too since most DC chargers are 400V (the 350kW ones can go to 800V). There are a lot of advantages to going with 800V. The biggest is that charging speed is cut in half, which is a huge advantage with the slow charging time issue of EVs.

I had thought that going with 800V involved high expenses for the switching until Hyundai came out with a lower-cost 800V EV, the Ioniq 5. After this, I figured that because of the huge advantage, that this would be the new standard and that any new, upcoming design would go with 800V.

So I'm really surprised that Toyota is not going in this direction.

Added: here's a charging curve of the Ioniq 5 vs typical 400V vehicles:

 

It's more complex than that.

First of all, you don't necessarily need parallel-series switching of the battery configuration to charge on the other voltage. You can to DC-DC conversion also.

Second, 800V doesn't, by itself, allow 2x faster charging. It allows 2x faster charging *at the same current* but the other way is 2x more current, and Tesla does that with the V3 chargers. Now, the amount of current you can pass depends on the wire size, the connector size, the temperature, and the condition of the contacts, but you can design to pass more current instead of more voltage if you want to.

Hyundai said specifically that the enabling factor for them to charge so fast was thermal control of the battery cells.

 

I'm comparing the BZ4x to the Hyundai Ioniq 5, and I'm seeing this, and wondering if I've made errors:

The cars are similar in size.
BZ4x has no frunk and no under-floor storage in the cargo area.
Ioniq 5 charges faster on 800V chargers.
Ioniq 5 has more power and faster acceleration, especially in AWD versions.
Ioniq 5 has faster L2 charging capability (11kW vs 6.6kW).
Ioniq 5 extended range has 6kWh more battery capacity.
BZ4x has no HUD available, while Ioniq 5 has it as an option.
Rumored prices are lower for BZ4x.
BZ4x *may* have better quality (Toyota) and longer battery capacity retention.

Did I get that right?

 

I was about to say much the same. If you double the voltage, the same power only requires half the amps, thus reducing heat loss and wire size. Or keep the wire size and current and double the power. Or something in between. The cost might be in the electrical isolation necessary ay 800V compared to 400V. 400V is already pretty serious stuff, but 800V is a lot more desperate to find a way to ground any way it can and will kill you way quicker if there's a screwup. I've seen the results of 480V short circuits and one on 4,160V. The 480 was impressive. The 4,160 was spectacular and sent a couple guys to the burn unit at Tampa General.

 

Not really.

600V and below is considered "low voltage" in the US, and most wire is rated for 600V. In Europe, 1000V and below is considered "low voltage" so the same things applies - a lot of common wire is rated to 1000V. It's pretty easy to find stuff rated to 1000V world-wide for this reason. Yeah, it'll mess up a human, but insulating it isn't a problem or a cost-driver until to get to medium voltage.

 

We know for Toyota that difference between speeds is standard 240-volt service and 3-phase. I suspect the same for Hyundai.

Looks like there is something in back below the floor based on cutout video.