1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Environmental News

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. Merkey

    Merkey Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2012
    269
    247
    0
    Location:
    Birmingham, Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I don't think FedEx or UPS deliver there.
     
    bisco likes this.
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,557
    10,324
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Both should be able to deliver to his Anaheim and Orlando homes.

    (Fixed -- I don't travel in that region enough to remember all the details)
     
    #1442 fuzzy1, Sep 7, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Based on New Origins probe (that went to and past) Pluto, and some fast-and-loose math, about 600 tons of fuel need to be burned (in the atmosphere) to get a ton of stuff out there.
     
    fuzzy1 and Merkey like this.
  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Pasadena -> Anaheim

    Unless there is something peculiar happening at CalTech
     
    fuzzy1 likes this.
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Continuing the fuel economy theme, it appears that 'shipping' to Mars requires only about 1/6 the fuel, compared to Pluto. Not very confident in that calculation - perhaps others see a clearer picture.

    ==edit
    I suppose New Origins needed enough velocity to escape Sun's gravity well completely, as it is still going. Only the third such?

    Throwing stuff at Mars only requires enough velocity to get gravitationally captured by Mars. And of course going to a correct spot. So it should have a much lower velocity requirement. Always learning here :)

    It may be that most Mars trippers move faster than that bare minimum, to save on travel time.
     
    #1446 tochatihu, Sep 7, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Actually there is new fun stuff coming out about sending people to Mars. That solar maximum activity would be a good time to go. That stuck me as counter intuitive because that is time of highest charged-particle flux from Sun, which biologicals would rather avoid.

    Explanation apparently is that solar magnetosphere is largest then, and it can provide some protection en route against galactic charged-particle fluxes. Which are even less friendly.

    Ecosystems within ecosystems :cool:
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,557
    10,324
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Regarding cosmic radiation vs solar cycles for purposes of space travel, here is a chart:

    upload_2021-9-7_22-42-23.png
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,156
    50,059
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    fuzzy1 likes this.
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,156
    50,059
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    brought to you by the heat pump manufacturers association...
     
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Yes, they have financial interests here. That is not enough by itself to discard the analysis. People run the numbers for themselves and make some decisions. They might decide to not scuttle the coal scuttle. That's the fun of it.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,156
    50,059
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    or pellet stove
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Ah yes the pellets.Let me just defer complaining about new ways to grind up forests...
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,156
    50,059
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    'i assure you, they are post manufacturing waste'

    brought to you by the pellet stove manufacturers of america :D
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,449
    11,762
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    They were until Europe didn't specify wood had to be post manufacturing waste to be counted as green.
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    This article claims US pellet production is 80% waste from other wood industries and 20% new cutting:

    Sustainability | Free Full-Text | Effects of Production of Woody Pellets in the Southeastern United States on the Sustainable Development Goals | HTML

    Audubon, Natl Resources Defense Council among others are 'heated' on this subject, mostly related to the Euro policy @Trollbait mentions.

    A consortium of Congo-forest countries are getting into pellet manufacture/export, possibly as a way to work around round-wood export bans.
     
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    When you put a stick in a wood stove, not all of it encounters optimal conditions of temperature and oxygen supply. So there are particulates, carbon monoxide, and thermal inefficiency. Pellet stoves demonstrably do combustion better, and are about as clean as wood burning can be I suppose. Also they are pretty much automatic, so end user does not need to know much about wood. Do not underestimate market value of dumbing down. They call it convenience :)

    Full carbon accounting of pellet manufacturing, and transport (to as far as Europe) may have been done. I don't know. But it won't improve the carbon picture.

    There is plenty of room for 'spin' by both sides.

    A matter of interest for me is whether all that underground stuff (mycorrhia etc.) happens as nicely in short-rotation forests (whatever the reason they are on short rotation) as it does where trees are less disturbed. I don't think that has been studied carefully.
     
  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,563
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Firewood end use far from its cutting site also aids in dispersal of forest pests, emerald ash borer, etc. If pellet factories are close to cutting sites, I suppose they avoid such problems.

    The subject has many aspects to consider. Makes it interesting.
     
  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,557
    10,324
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    ... and by me. Adding a ductless minisplit heat pump to the main area of my house, to displace most of the original electric resistance, has been the greatest home energy-saving step I've ever done. And significantly better products are available now.

    But that article covered only space heat. The same should also be done with water heat. Switching from electric resistance to a heat pump water heater has been my second greatest energy savings. And much better products are available now.

    Next up ... heat pump clothes dryers. But they are still an emerging market, not yet mature enough to make a compelling case. I'm hoping for them to be ready for prime time within a handful of years.
    Much cleaner and better than the cordwood heat that I grew up with. (The farm's woodlot provides plenty of fuel, "free" except for the great labor and chainsaw maintenance & fuel needed to collect it.) We finally got rid of dad's wood furnace a half dozen years ago and replaced it with a ground source heat pump.

    Prior to my own heat pump, I had looked at a pellet stove to replace the wood stove I can no longer use during any Puget Sound air quality alerts, which are commonly issued preemptively now. But one of my requirements was an ability to use it during winter power failures. A demonstration project had proven that it was possible for a pellet stove to power itself (fan and pellet feed) with a thermoelectric generator in its exhaust path, but nobody commercialized it. My old dirty uncertified wood stove does work during power outages, and is needed only very rarely. Especially since building envelope improvements now allow this home to ride through longer outages before needing any alternate heat.

    But pellet stoves are still too dirty for widespread use in urban and large suburban areas. In those areas, reserve them for 'upgrades' to existing dirtier wood burners.
     
    tochatihu likes this.