Lexus EV conspiracy theories

"It's not like Toyota doesn't have money or technology, so it seems remarkable that they'd manage to build something so abysmal."

That was basically my impression when first seeing the Prius Prime. It was Toyota's second PHEV, and they had to know what people disliked about competitors models. Yet it had the same flaws in cargo and passenger space as other first gen PHEVs.

I think this Lexus is just a compliance car for China. They also need some type of competitor to others' BEVs in Europe, and selling some there may help with production costs.

Electrify America announced they won't be putting in any new CHAdeMO plugs, so it is unofficially dead here. I think China and CHAdeMO are working on a standard for faster charging. I'm guessing this Lexus has CHAdeMO because that is what Toyota had on the parts shelf. Note that the battery is fan cooled, so faster charge times might be bad for the battery.

 

The vehicle is an "engineer build". It's a process used to final test your knowledge gained so far before taking the next big step. Within confines of existing resources (both hardware & software), you are challenged to champion an effort to produce the best all-around product. In other words, that is a practice effort, preparation for what's to come... a learning exercise to shake out weak points. That's what you do when you want to be thorough about a major commitment.

We already know what that commitment is too, the upcoming "bZ" line of vehicles. That is Toyota's new e-TNGA platform which allows a wide variety of BEV configurations... exactly what UX300e does not. By actually participating in that engineering build, you end up discovering what the challenges to come will be. That how you confirm investment money is allocated properly. There's a lot at stake. Comprehensive research is priceless.

Think about it. We already know what bZ4X is targeted to achieve. That first offering will be a new dedicated BEV model, a really big deal for Toyota. In the presentation for it from late last year, they sighted their challenge "to secure quality & durability and minimize cost". Sound familiar? That's the very same thing they did with PHV, specifically Prius Prime. It was an effort so successful, we now have the high-praise, high-demand RAV4 Prime.

I find it quite telling by those who criticize Toyota for wasting time or dragging their feet. You don't just dive into the pool expecting to win gold within lots of practice. UX300e is that practice. So what if it uses outdated standards, like CHAdeMO charging? We know there will be an adapter available. We have also been shown that bZ4X will feature CCS charging. Being forced to find a way to squeeze out as much as possible with what you have already is how you learn to make the next better.

Don't forget about the new battery technology either. We know there are better things to come. Even before achieving solid-state design, there is the benefit of eliminating cobalt & nickel from existing lithium chemistry. There's an expectation of hybrid demand to explode, as much as a 600% increase by 2025. That's a lot of potential for any technology using batteries. Keep in mind, all segments are being targeted (B, C, D, E) for electrification. Being comprehensive takes time & practice.

 

Ah! The Gen-1 of Toyota EVs. ... Makes sense posts a former Gem-1 Prius owner with over 125,000 miles on the car at 52 MPG. I wish them well ... especially after they close and smooth out that hideous grill.

Bob Wilson

 

What we recognize as Gen-1 is actually the successor to the Prius Toyota offered only in Japan, starting way back in 1997. For those who program in lower-level languages, where the first number in a counting sequence is 0 rather than 1, we refer to that Prius as Gen-0. It is a model we never got here in the United States. That one used D-cells in the battery-pack. We got the improvement, the introduction of prismatic packaging.

Way back then, Toyota set the precedence of requiring patience. I got to see that original model in person. The screen wasn't touch-sensitive and the engine delivered fewer horsepower. It was quite interesting to witness that beginning. Waiting was just fine, totally worth it. Now, something similar is happening with bZ4X.

We see others getting their feet wet too, just like what started it all in the first place. Remember the PNGV (Partnership for the Next Generation Vehicle) program, where Toyota was excluded from funding? That nurtured what resulted in a provoke others came to regret. Think about how Toyota is on its own schedule still, going about delivering their own evolutionary design, not following the others.

Antagonists spin that behavior by Toyota as "feet dragging" or "kicking & screaming". But when you look for evidence, you find there have been 4 rollouts of BEV already. Each are obviously compliance. But since you have to deliver something anyway, why not an engineering build? Challenge the army of resources available to exploit hardware & software to squeeze out even better performance than originally designed. After all, that's what competing with other automakers is about.

Watch for the upcoming detail about bZ4X late this year. I suspect that will be in the second-half of November, during the Auto Show in LA.

 

Gen1 might actually be the aborted iQ EV for models using Li-ion. That was designed with the thinking customers didn't want more out of their BEV than what lead-acid or NiMH could provide.

Japan had a LEV program that started in the '70s with lab level research into various technologies to reduce vehicle emissions within cities. Eventually, it provided subsidies for EVs and hybrids that were introduced to the Japanese market. Toyota and the first Prius were beneficiaries of government funding to that program.

The BEVs that came out of that program were cutting edge for the time. Like the EV1, they used lead acid or NiMH, which resulted in short range city cars. These results ossified in the upper management of Japanese car companies. They couldn't see the potential Li-ion brought to plug ins. So Toyota shackled the iQ EV with all the flaws of those early BEVs; a range less than 50 miles with high price tag. Without Toyota USA speaking up, the Prius Prime may have ended up with an EV range not much more than the PiP.

Nissan did release the Leaf earlier. It was serious attempt at an affordable BEV for the time. That was a decision of a Lebanese CEO of a French company though. It likely even shared a lot with Renault's Zoe; the current generations use the same platform.

The EV side of the latest Rav4 EV was done by Tesla. Don't see how much learning Toyota engineers got from that. This UXe has more in common with the Leaf. For much more price, even after taking into the segment difference. The Leaf is 26k to 33k pounds in the UK, with the latter having more range than the Lexus. At least Toyota choose not to use passive air cooling.

Nissan Leaf review | CAR Magazine


Everybody is looking to reduce Cobalt and Nickel from batteries. Tesla and some Chinese EV makers even eliminated it by using LiFePhos in some models. Toyota slow entry to BEVs likely has more to do with simply not having the battery supplies available to them, not because of the available chemistry. Concerns of Nickel didn't get them to stop using NiMH.

Solid state lithium has some great potential. Being a major game changer isn't going to be one of them on their introduction. Their cost will hinder that.

Who is making a CCS to CHAdeMO adapter?

 

toyota apologists

 

Looking into something else, I came across this.

"But Toyota CEO, Akio Toyoda was happy to explain the company’s reasoning for their rare hydrogen excursion. “Since it’s powered by hydrogen it emits almost no CO2,” he says. “We wanted to show the world one way Japan can be carbon neutral. And how we can benefit from a hydrogen powered society. Since we made this statement, I, as the chairman of the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, have been asking the Japanese government to take the necessary steps and increase the number of carbon-neutral options. This is because, if all cars become battery-electric, one million jobs will be lost in Japan.”
Toyota Races World’s First Hydrogen Race Car To Promote Alternative To Electric Cars

 

Look around. Notice the rest of the industry is still struggling to grow beyond the initial audience. No amount of apologizing changes that. It's a challenging situation requiring multiple approaches.

As for the name calling, that's pretty sad. Too bad if they don't follow your preferred approach.

 

i don't have a preferred approach, toyota makes mistakes like everybody else

 

Care to define that?
What do you mean, “grow beyond initial audience”?

I agree, we aren’t yet beyond the early adopters (if that is what “initial audience” means).
However, we are seeing more and more people who have no interest in eliminating gas, buying electric cars. To me, this is a good thing.

 

The industry is struggling to grow supply to meet demand. Most of them discounted the appeal of plug ins, and didn't take the steps to ensure battery supply for when growth in sales happened. Toyota once had that insight for NiMH.

Friend will be replacing his F150 soon. Whatever he gets will likely be handed off to the SO in a few years, and he is considering the F150 Lightning for then.

 

That is awesome

We had a visit from a neighbor from our old neighborhood.
Big car guy, loves the classics, convertibles and muscle cars.
He dropped by, because he thought I would enjoy seeing his Mustang Mach-e

He got the same color (or close at least) as his first car, which happened to be a Mustang
One of the things he most enjoyed about it was how convenient 'filling up' was. He also loved the quality of the drive and the muscle the car had off the line.

 

If you ever get a chance to witness an innovation tournament, you'd understand. It's an opportunity to apply what you know in a different manner to achieve a short-term goal and hopefully learn something in the process. That type of exercise can be very rewarding for the participant. Ideas emerging from those events can be a gain for the sponsor too, a takeaway for long-term benefit. Toyota's practice has been to release a limited product into a limited market to collecting real-world data for that purpose. UX300e fits the pattern, especially when you take its generous warranty into account. That is a win-win for consumer & business. As an engineer myself, I find it quite fulfilling when chances to wander off path come about. Even with a small scope and not using the latest resources, those side projects typically turn out to be a great learning experience.

 

Not anyone. We have see this history already. It fits the pattern. Toyota is being selective about audience.