Featured 2023 Prius to launch plug-in hydrogen electric vehicle. Corolla to offer hydrogen combustion engine

But it won't need the massive local power supply - the "demand" will be a lot lower.

I was just at an Electrify America station with four DC fast chargers. The four of them were sharing a 750kVA transformer. An H2 station might have a 75kVA transformer running an electrolysis and compression system, and a tube trailer.

 

i have plenty of electricity in my garage, how many drivers can say that?

 

I've got two 15A 120V circuits and a 100A 240V subpanel feeding a NEMA 14-50 and 3 20A 120V circuits.

 

How many plug ins can that charger station fast charge at once? Many of the 4 dispenser hydrogen stations announced here can only fill 3 cars at a time. How many cars can be fast filled from the tube trailer in a row?

 

April 1st release date??

 

It's just a series of compressed gas tubes. As many as you have fill stations and ways to avoid freezing. And remember, a 5-minute fill means 1 wand can serve as many cars as 6 half-hour charging stations.

 

At three times the cost per mile as a BEV car.

Works for me.

Bob Wilson

 

You make the same mistake as Elon, which is surprising since I've explained it to you in detail in the past.

 

And they (Toyota and the rest of the legacy car makers) have no one to blame for this than themselves. They all sat on their hands while a tiny Silicon Valley startup built more fast DC chargers than all of them combined. And if you subtract out the ones mandated by the VW cheating scandal it is probably an order of magnitude more.
There are no excuses. "They" could have done it working together if Tesla did what it did.
But "they" wanted someone else to pay for it the same as "they" are going to want someone else to pay for the H2 stations. You should be able to see where this is going. No where.

Mike

 

Actually the legacy manufacturers paid Tesla for the new factories. Works for me.

Bob Wilson

 

Naw ... just trade-in your car for one that has charging lanes available.

Bob Wilson

 

Five minute fills require the tanks chilled to -40 degrees. With higher temperatures and lower tank pressures, the fill time starts getting longer. As long as a DC fast charge isn't unheard of.

Locally, Japan's electric grid isn't up for home charging cars for about half the population. On top of that, research and projects involving BEVs using NiMH at best convinced Japan's auto industry that only short range city BEVs would work. That thinking still seems in place. So they pushed hydrogen made from nuclear power to be carbon free. Then nuclear became a no go in Japan, and now they are importing hydrogen made from fossil fuels.

Toyota started with cars though. Available space on a truck, should make packaging easier to start. The problem is that fuel cells are expensive. To see price reductions, I think they need annual production in the hundreds of thousands. they are around 30k before the pandemic.

Point taken on more hydrogen tanks needed for a straight ICE car. Mazda and Toyota with the Prius are planning hydrogen ICE with a PHEV. It is possible the hydrogen Corolla will be a hybrid or PHEV too. We have little details at this time.

The current Mirai has an official tank range is nearly 80 miles less than an ICE Camry. It does have three hydrogen tanks; one behind the rear bumper, one behind the back seat, and one running down the middle of the cabin. Because of the tanks, the middle rear seat has a hump like the gen2 Volt, there is no pass through for long items, and the trunk is small. It is 9.6 cubic feet to the Camry's 15.1. The Corolla sedan has 13.1. The Mirai's trunk isn't in the unusable category, but hydrogen FCEVs were seen as a long range solution for cars, but the majority of long trips made by people are for things like vacations where trunk size can be a limiting factor on whether a car will work for the trip.

I thought those fees ended.

The Mirai is $50k, and it is basically a nicer trimmed Camry(at least one reviewer said Buick level). Seeing how the higher trim model is $15k more, Toyota is probably is selling them at a loss, or is getting a subsidy from the Japanese government. Prius sales couldn't survive the price hike for a fuel cell.

Public charging is a cheaper problem to fix than hydrogen infrastructure. That's why car companies pushing hydrogen cried they weren't an energy company when infrastructure was brought up.

 

hydrogen fuel cells, for TRUCKING ?

the massive diesel truck stop infrastructure of the USA.... and millions of trucks, is just going to change over to hydrogen ?

I don't think I've ever seen a hydrogen station. what do they look like ?

I would love to see diesel in use with hybrids .. man I hope you're right about that !

 

A fast DC charger is in the $75k to $150k installed for the high powered ones.
How Much Do Commercial DC Fast Chargers Cost?
A hydrogen station is one to three million dollars just for the equipment. That's for stations that can fill up to 250 FCEVs a day. The average customers per day for a gas station is 1100.
https://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/21002-hydrogen-fueling-station-cost.pdf
https://www.nacsshow.com/About/ForTheMedia/Documents/FactSheet_ConvenienceStoreIndustry

Toyota's production should be on a line now.
Toyota moves to expand mass-production of fuel cell stacks and hydrogen tanks towards ten-fold increase post-2020 | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

The fuel cell in the Mirai could cost under $6000, if Toyota was making 100k of a year, but they are only making maybe 30k. Then the hydrogen tanks are a couple thousand. A FCEV made in the same numbers as a Model 3 might compete with the Tesla on price.
Fact of the Month April 2018: Fuel Cell Cost Decreased by 60% since 2006 | Department of Energy
https://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/17007_fuel_cell_system_cost_2017.pdf

A couple of car companies have announced discontinuing of engine development.

 

If the first Gen Mirai would have been a “PHEV”. I might have bought one of the $3500 off lease units to use as a short range EV without access to hydrogen

only benefit of an ICE hydrogen PHEV is that once they get fire saled I can convert one to CNG


Now the real questions
what MPG will the regular hybrid get?
What battery size/range will the PHEV have?

 

You just do t know your audience .