Featured Here’s Why The 2021 Toyota Prius Has Become An Undesirable Electrified Car

That sounds like an embarrassingly large amount of bang for a Prius-sized car.

If I read that in a brochure at a sales desk I'd feel the urge to ask about the normal family model instead.

 

I'd rather see a much better packaged battery. If the PHEV isn't going for EV range, I think the EV bits should intrude as little as possible into the car's usefulness to a family.

Many of the turbos out now that are being used to help fuel economy ratings aren't as high pressure as past performance ones. That and better material science means the heat isn't has much of an issue as it was on past models.

They are getting pretty common now. IIRC, all the F150 engines have it.

 

Yes that is what they have been.

The new 48V Mercedes mild hybrids have an mg-starter between the engine and transmission. This is similar to the old honda hybrid ima system. The newer 48v components should make it lower cost though. In the M256 where it was introduced in europe it is 16 KW and is pared with a 0.9 kwh lithium battery that has more usable energy than the ones in the Prius but it is in heavier cars and the battery is used for an electronic supercharger to fill in gaps with the turbocharger not the better but even more expensive electronic turbocharger. I think though the difference is that the engine is still engaged to get regen braking.

The corolla with the 2L engine has 169 hp. The civic with has an 180 hp model. Its pretty standard today. You want enough power in a phev (in this case I am talking around 100 hp electric only) to be able to do everything on electric power alone in a phev. Hopefully they will offer the corrola hatch hybrid in the us like they do in europe if they do this on the next generation. That will keep the lower powered hybrid available in a hatchback style.

 

I'll have to write that off to the horsepower war. I've done too many miles driving 100-140hp station wagons up the same on-ramps that people are scared to try without 200+ these days.

 

I'm afraid the internal combustion piston engine is a thing of the past, it just has a while to go while the clear out all the production runs that were put in motion yrs ago ...... turbines might make an entry into the automotive market, but many of the rotary type engines and other variants might break into the market place with narrow RPM range better fuel economy and these just drive a genset in the newest hybrid designs, range extender PHEV that is really a BEV with a gen set to calm the nerves of those with range anxiety .... this will only be a stop gap to get everyone over their issues when they discover the motor/genset hadn't been required for 12 mths and now was just an additional weight they were dragging around.
When Tesla style range, performance and speed become the norm, only the die hards will cling onto the internal combustion engine powered vehicle .... and they won't be buying wizz-bang type new cars, they will resurrect the might muscle cars of the past ....

T1 Terry

 

Wrightspeed does PHEV conversions of commercial trucks using turbines. The issue with them for cars is the cost. Mazda should be releasing their EV with Wankel range extender soon.

Having a large enough battery to cover the occasional long trip may weigh more than an ICE range extender.

 

But fast charging sited at convenient places where there are other attractions such as shopping, restaurants, touristy things, will give the driver and passengers that rest time required to do an even longer trip while the car recharges. Just like fuel stations popped up to replace stage coach stops, EV fast charging will be there just as soon as the govt puts incentives up and their is a market there to make a $$, combining these things into better money extracting ventures, better able to extract the $$ because they have a captive buyer, just makes logical sense. Eventually small towns spring up around these sites because the customers will be there, not whizzing past like the freeway traffic is killing many small towns now ..... a rebirth for the non big city areas?
I think the govts around the world should be embracing this change, it could help with over population in low employment areas and encourage more small businesses to have a go ... to at least scratch out a living that they can't do now ....

T1 Terry

 

...because there's suddenly a bunch of extra money to spend while charging the car?

If people want to hang out and spend money in small towns now, they can. They've had that choice all along. I guess I see it as putting a damper on travel in the first place- fewer trips taken, shorter trips, and less spent at the destination because it costs more to go & return.

 

But they don't, because they bypass these towns jumping from fuel pump to fuel pump trying to get to their destination as quick as possible. The money spent of fuel will be saved, the cost of a recharge is a lot less than the cost of a tank of fuel after all. It might mean slowing down and seeing more of the country during the trip .... would that really be a bad thing?

T1 Terry

 

I'm not arguing that it would be bad for the vacationer, rather that the trade-off takes away from the recreation industry at their destination.

I realize it isn't a zero-sum game, but it may not be far off.

Sometimes when I travel I specifically want to explore and discover. On other trips I just want to fold space and experience (or at least spend) nothing until I am at my planned destination.

 

DC charging here is costing more than filling up with regular gas. Yes, the home charging can be a lot cheaper, but then you have to factor in the higher price of the EV.

I understand the value of the extended rest stops a BEV would require. The trip to my parents is 9 to 10 hours. A BEV would add about an hour, but I may not be as tired at the end of the trip. However, that hour rest isn't at one location. It will be multiple stops of around 20 minutes, which isn't generally long enough to see the sites of a stop.

 

This is not what has happened in our experience. However, I don't know how this will affect the vacation industry as a whole.

Our family has taken more trips, greater distances and probably more spent because we saved money elsewhere, both on the trip and over the year.

Again, I don't know if this will be true for more people than the opposite will be the case. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I can say the airline business has seen a lot less of our money since we started driving electric. I won't shed a tear over that

 

Similar here. Don’t know if we are edge cases but the Supercharger network and often destination charging is great on our coast. We also fly less these days - no longer to SoCal to visit extended family and friends, but Model 3 instead.

Another example of taking more trips in our case with a BEV - a couple weeks ago we went to mount Lassen National Park for the second year in a row. Poor gas station available in that neck of the woods. No problem, though as easily charge at our KOA site with L2 high amp Tesla destination charger or even off our cabin 120v outlet. Last year was the only BEV there but we were just 1 of 4 this time. Also dozens of NEMA 14-50s (designated for RVs).

 

Remember, GPS navigation and apps were supposed to get people off the highways so they could explore and revitalize little roadside villages.

So were all the highway signs that said "FOOD GAS PHONE 2MI -->" in an earlier era.

I have to conclude that most travelers just don't want to stop there for longer than it takes to pump fourteen gallons in and fourteen ounces out.

 

My Rav4h (non-prime) has a better 0-60 than 4 of my 5 sports cars ever did.

 

Ouch, not the case over this side, but then the govt doesn't help with the purchase price of the EV either. One thing that has become apparent though, the EV's either hold the resale value or actually increase their resale price against purchase price ... probably only a short term thing because it's 6 mths or more wait at the moment to buy a new EV.

Many of the shopping centres around the major cities provide free charging for EV and free parking in their own specially marked spots .... and policing of non EV use or over staying the recharge time, although that one occurs by charging a fee for ever 15 mins over your end of charge period that you remain in the recharging spot, you do get a 15 min grace period though and an alert on your mobile phone .... so it's not like you didn't know about it.
All the charging sites over here are linked by a card pay system, well smart phone connection really, that connects your vehicle to the system after you plug in and monitors how the recharge is progressing so you can click on the site to see how much longer is required.

A 9 hr to 10 hr drive, how far is that?

T1 Terry

 

i doubt gm will ever sell their volt outside of the Asian countries anymore, but their gen2 really has a nice balance between economy, ICE/power, electric motor/power, & its 50-60 mile ev range.
Would have loved loved loved to have seen that arrangement in a smaller SUV/CUV. That slightly larger wheelbase would have made an even better platform for another 6kwh on top of their 14 kwh traction pack.

One person's reward is another person's dread. iirc - prius prime 0-60 mph time (ie ability to accelerate hard) is ~10½ seconds. Rav4 prime? ~5½ sec.
All the skill in the world is great, but sometimes, in the unexpected, one better be able to get out of someone's way quick. And if you have skill AND quick? All the better.
.

 

That's got to be a tough one to crack.

They could advertise "0-60 in 5 seconds" and attract x new customers, while alienating y others left thinking about how much they could save on one that needs 10 seconds.

 

Some businesses have free chargers, but they are Level 2. Useful for charging while doing errands locally, but are too slow for people on trips.

My trip is around 580 miles.

With plug ins, much of that faster acceleration is due to a bigger battery, so you are also getting longer EV range with it.

In the case of plugless hybrids, there have been ones that are faster than the Prius. Like ICE cars with better acceleration, they used more fuel.

 

Agreed .. so for Prius they would probably got for 8-9 seconds ...