Featured Right to repair

What about Tesla?

 

There are code writers that have decompiled Tesla code - but just try & benefit from it
.

 

I don't know; I had a 2001, and there were the two volumes of Repair Manual, one volume New Car Features, one volume Electrical Wiring Diagram, one volume Collision Repair, and I spent a little shy of $300 to buy them.

Then Toyota switched to their Technical Information Service and it's $20 to sign in for two days and download any of that, plus any of their TSBs, Quick Technical Guides, or course materials for their technician training courses. I've gone back more than once and paid them additional twenties over several years, but I'm probably still well under what I paid for the Gen 1 paper books.

From what I've read, the John Deere restrictions are particularly egregious.

Toyota has at least even made it possible to use Techstream officially for $65 for two days, well under what a dealer visit often costs.

I do think the RTR issue is important, and many makers do seem eager to weaken RTR laws any way they can; it seems to me that the original Massachusetts law was significantly weakened from what it could have been, which is surely why the manufacturers were so quick to agree to it nationwide and preempt efforts in other states.

But I'd have to say among manufacturers' current practices, Toyota's don't seem extravagantly bad.

 

Yes, I well remember, buying a car, next stop the BookShop for the workshop manual. Have most of them still up till my last one. Maybe I'm weird, but I'd take it to bed for a good read - over a period of a week or so.

 

Having a book for a finished product, even if it's a pdf "book", kept Toyota organized and presentable. Second gen pdf of the manual is a head-and-shoulders above 3rd gen in this regard. AFAIK 4th gen doesn't have a pdf version, and it shows...

 

So - auto manufacturers would rather go to trial? rather than make things easier for owners? not to mention avoiding the lost good will?

 

Could our sue happy society be a concern in this for manufacturers.

Examples

-well the repair manual said so-

-an improper repair causes an accident- and the owner says "well the manufacturer encourages owners to do their own repairs by providing manuals and resources"

I am a DIY enthusiast and do all my own automotive work. Being able to do the work myself is important to me. I have Techstream and online manuals for my cars.

I can see many concerns for manufactures in a society where nothing is an individuals responsibility- it is always someone else fault and the individual has no responsibility.

Incidentally it is not only car manufactures that do this, as a person who use to have an appliance repair business as a sideline many appliance manufactures are secretive about their repair information.

I had an incident where I repaired an individuals clothes dryer (bad heating element) and their hot water heater which was in the same room began leaking immediately after the clothes dryer repair visit. I received a call wanting to know what I had done to their hot water heater and what I was going to do about the leak. You have to protect yourself against people who are like that by being bonded, registered and insured.

Manufactures may sadly be trying to protect themselves as best they can.

 

There's this disclaimer, about 3 pages in, on the 3rd gen Repair Manual. Sufficient to get them off the hook?:

 

I think there is some confusion regarding a right to repair vs an ability to repair.

OBDII readers and manuals available either in paper or online form have made it possible for some people to work on their own cars, but the complexity of the machines and it being MUCH more difficult to actually perform the repairs.

You can't patch up an ECU with duct tape or baling wire.

I've seen the kind of dodgy household "repairs" people coming into the hardware store perform. There's just no way these folks should even be looking under the hood of something as complex as a Prius.

Around here at least, John Deere has a rep for making it impossible to get parts from anywhere other than them. do not know how they keep aftermarket manufacturers from making them available. Regardless, the answer to that problem - if it is one for you - is to not buy from companies that won't let you do your own work.

 

As often as not when I read through any shop manual, I’m scared straight, realize I’d be out of my depth. Deep stuff I leave to the dealership.

 

That's my first impression as well.

To not being even able (willing) to do my own oil changes is foreign to me.

OTOH - by the time I buy the oil and filter for my 2000 Ranger - I may as well pay the local kwik-lube place. I don't know how they do it for less than I can buy the oil & filter. That way I don't have to crawl under the truck, get all dirty, catch, bottle and return used oil.

Also - in Texas, you HAVE to bring your car in every year for a "Safety Inspection". I find it convenient to have an oil change done at the same time. IOW - it's easy for me to rationalize that one.

 

...or even independent shop cost to repair.

 

That might be a concern, but the practices appear to be more about keeping prices up. It may have even started before litigation was a real concern.

The earliest articles I saw on the right to repair topic did mention appliances.

They buy the oil, filters and any other parts in bulk, so it costs far less than what you pay. The other side using an oil change place is that you don't know exactly what they put into the car. It might cost you more, but you might be comparing a 'full' synthetic oil change to a blend at best.

Had a 2000 ranger. Unless you have the 4L, Ford changed the oil requirements from 5w30 to 5w20 back while I still had it. they didn't mail out out new oil caps with that info.

 

i think it's more about independent repair shops than diy'ers. mfg's want that business for their dealers

 

Apparently this is a Worldwide issue

Apple crushes one-man repair shop in Norway’s Supreme Court, after three-year battle - Right to Repair Europe

"Today marks a set back for the right to repair movement. Henrik Huseby, a Norwegian small business owner and repairer lost his legal battle against $1 trillion company Apple in Norway’s Supreme Court. With this decision, Apple continues to effectively shut off access to refurbished or after market spare parts for independent repairers."

Tesla fights new 'Right to Repair' initiative over cybersecurity concerns - Electrek

 

The real question of economics here isn't how the cost of repairs compares to the vehicle's value. The real question is the total cost per mile. Say you have an old broken-down Prius with a KBB value of $2,000 in its current state, and the repairs will cost $3,000. If that repair will get you another 20,000 miles your prorated cost of getting back to driving is 15 cents per mile. To beat that you'd have to be able to replace your old Prius with something with an acquisition cost that prorated to less than 15 cents per mile. If it was another used Prius for $5,000 you'd have to be sure it would go 20,000 miles without further repair to come out ahead ($5,000 - $2,000 for your old Prius). The normal operating costs per mile should also be calculated if they are different vehicles to make a more complete economic analysis.