Featured Toyota Says It Isn't Anti-EV; Suggests It'll Build More EVs If Demand Exists

My understanding is Tesla has about 7-8 days inventory. They sell everyone they make.

Perhaps there is no demand because some like me traded in our last Prius, a Prime, for our Tesla. Toyotas are one of the more frequently traded in for a Tesla.

Perhaps moving to Texas made Toyota a little deaf?

Bob Wilson

 

I'll believe it when charging stations start emerging in the front lot of every Toyota dealer.

 

There was little/no demand for hybrids before Toyota led the market for hybrids.

Toyota saying that is a bit like Blackberry saying they see no demand for keyboardless smart-phones and they will build them once there is demand for them.

I have no issues with Toyota relegating itself for be a follower, I just miss the Toyota that took a leadership role in hybrids.

 

Presumably Toyota is hedging their bets...if Biden mandates and super-subsidizes BEV's and snubs hybrids, then sounds like Toyota will be eventually ready with models to fit. My hypothesis is Detroit wants BEV because the cannot compete with Toyota on hybrids and should, for at least a while, have an edge over Japan auto cos. if USA mandates BEV. Japan is not so much BEV advocates as we are here.

 

more? how about one?

 

Suspect Toyota's view is as long as people keep buying what they're selling they'll do everything they can both honestly and dishonestly to ensure everyone keeps buying what they're selling and they'll be the last to accept that their non-electric car efforts are no longer selling.

 

don't forget . . . the new "some day" toyota EV is designated, "BZ" - as in beyond zero. Pretty much sums up their EV intent for now ... beyond zero.

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below zero? oh, that's cold

 

Toyota Says It's Still Too Soon To Focus On Electric Cars (insideevs.com)

Toyota delusionally claims hybrids and fuel cells will stay competitive with electric cars for next 30 years - Electrek

 

I stopped reading at "if demand exists."

 

And hundreds of thousands of pre-orders for all the upcoming electric vehicles by other manufacturers doesn't count as actual demand, because there's no supply, right? And you can't have demand without supply right?

Therefore support fossil fools and buy Toyota, the leader in not caring about anything but maximizing profits now, because who cares about the future! Corporations don't have to care, they just need to take your money right away and forget about the future!

 

Tesla will happily sell them credits and take in Toyota trade ins. Perhaps a clever way to support TSLA’s quarterly profits without a formal investment agreement?

Bob Wilson

 

What was the exact quote of the Toyota executive in the GCR article? That article got a lot of attention on the premise that Toyota said something. But that something was paraphrased by the author who had a certain messaging to push. Every few months, authors (who, for some reason, always show a clear bias for a certain other company that shall not be named) feel like they need to put down Toyota for something.

Every car company is in the business of making money. If Toyota is wrong, they lose market share. They'll use whatever strategy they use; who cares?! We can't depend on corporations to solve climate change. We have to enforce GHG standards. We shouldn't be at the mercy of corporations for... anything, and especially not something as important as climate change.

If you're on the market for a car, and Toyota doesn't have one that fits your needs, buy from someone else. What's the issue? There are dozens of car companies, each with their own strategies. Some strategies will be more successful than others. Almost nobody in these forums focused on green technologies (GCR, IEVs, Electrek, etc) scrutinizes the strategy of energy companies. Or train manufacturers. Or governments' strategy for public transportation. Or home energy efficiency standards. But when it comes to Toyota's strategy, everyone's in tune and apparently appalled. It's quite something. If Toyota is wrong, they'll lose market share. There are dozens of companies that can take their spot. The outcry is simply not necessary.

As for how Toyota's strategy is doing for reducing CO2 emissions -- which is the actual point, is it not? -- they seem to be doing alright:
CO2 performance of new passenger cars in Europe — European Environment Agency
Highlights of the Automotive Trends Report | The EPA Automotive Trends Report | US EPA

 

Per the link, they are fifth from the bottom of the list.
They have improved, as the last time that report was done Toyota’s CO2 emissions from their fleet was going increasing. In this report they are slightly improving.

I do like that chart though, it is a good snapshot of what is happening.

 

They were 5th from the bottom in the US in 2019. [That's a little misleading since not all manufacturers are the same size. Their overall CO2 emissions per vehicle was lower than the US average.] Their hybrid vehicle market share has increased significantly since. In Europe, the Toyota-Mazda pool has the lowest CO2 emissions. Since Mazda doesn't sell hybrids/PHEVs/EVs in significant numbers, I'd imagine the Toyota-only bar would have been even shorter.

 

How is it misleading?
The numbers represent the expected CO2 emissions per vehicle.
If it were the total emissions of the fleet, the number of vehicles in the sample would make a big difference.

Beating the average is a very low bar and shows little, if any commitment to lowering CO2 emissions.

 

Toyota took the hybrid approach to the max, and are now being asked by U.S. BEV advocates to change, because hybrids still use some fossil fuel.

If we as a Country were actually trying to reduce CO2, then hybrids would be good step right now.
Why doesn't that work for America::
(1) some people won't even get a COVID shot let alone be forced to buy a hybrid
(2) I think Japan auto makers are too good at making hybrids, so USA autos would rather go BEV and have that mandated in a manner that helps USA auto industry better compete. Also the US Autos always hated the oil cos anyways.
(3) We have politics in play saying the future needs to be 100% electrification in the USA.

I don't think you'll find this "hybrid hate" elsewhere on the planet. Europe hates gasoline cars due to being wimpier than powerful diesel and also, for that historical reason of diesel preference, Europe does not make too much gasoline. So they have their own preferences for their own reasons. Just like the EU grow rapeseed for biodiesel and we grow corn for mandated E10. We each have our own political favored things.

 

You didn't account for the effect of fuel prices. They were high for a long time in Europe. This lead to the preference of diesels for efficiency. With the arrival of hybrids, they stuck with diesel until the emission cheating scandal. Then Toyota hybrids had a major increase in sales there.

Cheaper fuel in the US makes hybrids using the typical pricing structure a harder sale. Toyota knows this, and it is why they structured the Rav4 hybrid features and prices the way they did, and why they are starting to make some models hybrid only here. Hybrids are still pretty much only considered for fuel economy though. BEVs can marketed on something besides that.

In some segments, Toyotas are the best in fuel efficiency, and thus carbon emissions. In others they are the worst.

 

True about historical high fuel tax.in Europe,
I was going to mention we could increase fuel tax, but that is now considered an injustice.

But still we could use CAFE rules and encouragement from Gov't policy re: hybrids.
But hybrids get no love from either side of the aisle...I hope that might change.
Where we are probably headed is Blue state/Red state divide where Blue states mandate BEV.