Rainbow Prius Hybrid Powered by Lithium!

Sure, Jack. I appreciate your explanation, as the 30+ years of electronics and electrical experience wasn't enough for me to know that.

 

It’s like politics; you have to attack the other person’s character if you have no facts to make a point especially if you have a product to protect.

 

I won't use that word but it was a meaningless comparison.

 

Referring to post #379?

 

Actually, respectfully referring to both your post #370 (and Jack's #379) where you compared your mileage to the guy who got improved mileage with the Li pack.

I have a heavy foot and happily average about #45 mpg year round. I would be delighted if my mpg improved to 57. So, I agree with Jack saying YMMV.

 

@jacktheripper- Have you heard of the saying: “A friend in need is a friend indeed”?

Even the Smart Car of America forum moderator, (a real swell guy), has decided to upgrade his ED:

2015 smart fortwo ED coupe $8,499 OBO | Smart Car of America Forum

Good job on bringing this to market and thanks for the offer to help with my ED. I’m afraid this thread is going, well, in the wrong direction....

 

What a read. Keyboard warriors in every forum. You sir "that person yielded 57mpg on a new lithium? I have 63 mpg from the last 6,000 miles from from the winter cold on the stock nimh battery. Hilarious." How about you go drive your 63mpg Prius for another 6000 miles and buy a cheeseburger in the winter cold on your your stock NiMh battery? You make no sense and happy you get 63mpg. My Prius gets 43 to 46mpg at best. Not even going to open a can of worms with you people here that post senseless stupid responses.

 

Hopefully I have time to read through this thread one of these days. The tech looks promising. Before even finding @jacktheripper 's posts and YouTube videos and such I had a already come to the conclusion LiFePO4 would work very well as a direct NiMH replacement and I don't see why it wouldn't outperform NiMH.

I do have a concern even though there's tons of assurance that these have been tested in every extreme condition known to the Prius driver, and that is cold weather. Do these have a heater? I have seen LiFePO4 batteries with added yttrium at the cathode to help cold weather performance. But for the most part I've heard that freezing temps and charging LiFePO4 batteries damages them a few percent at a time. And where I live it's not uncommon to see winter temps as low as -30⁰F or even colder. But at least rigging up a battery warmer wouldn't be impossible.

I think that's about it. As long as the cells are high quality and there is enough airflow for cooling and the balancing circuits are well designed I don't see why this wouldn't be a great upgrade.

 

I average 43mpg from my old nimh. Lots of hills near me and i drive 80+ on the highway. Dont know how you could ever get 50 + much less your 60+. Hope we can see some more testing once these packs get in the wild

 

Fuel mileage is so varied by how and where you drive that it's extremely difficult to compare to other fuel mileage results.

I've gotten nearly 60mpg before on fairly long drives (30 miles). But during this winter a lot of trips were as low as 20mpg or less. And I'm taking about the same car (in this case the Avalon Hybrid).

For an example, 43mpg at 80mph... That sounds a bit off. If you do get 43mpg at 80mph then well over 50mpg at 55mph should be technically possible since at 80mph it takes nearly twice the amount of energy to overcome aerodynamic drag than at 50mph.

 

Fair enough. Lots of hills and highway speeds of 80+ collectively net me 43mpg. I see no reason to hang out in the right hand lane

 

With that being said, we can’t say lithium is better than nimh.

 

Yes and no. You need precise tests to come to accurate conclusions. For an example, put the car through them same EPA tests the car was put through when it had NiMH batteries.

Just throwing in a different kind of battery and getting what seems like a 5mpg improvement driving around on real life roads and a streets could be influenced by a bit more efficient driving, even if the driver doesn't realize he's changed his or her habits just a slight amount.

 

That line is pure ignorance and misinformation in every case. It is marketing hype article, not a technical expert.

120A is the regulated limited by the car. There is a slow blow 125A fuse in the battery itself. It can get to 150A+ for extremely brief periods of time under 100% acceleration.

The inverter under the hood would explode at 400A. The fuse in the back would blow. The cables between the back and front would melt. You can not pull more than the inverter can pull continuously which is what limits it to 120A + inrush current.

If you hooked up an inverter directly to the battery contacts in the back, it would all melt and blow fuses at 125A. So not even with a directly connected inverter could you get anywhere near that.

 

Well, marketing is marketing, there is hype and there’s the truth. There’s also the bottom line. I don’t think we’re using our time wisely playing the semantics game or baiting someone into a trap:

I clearly saw a video of Jack in a Gen 2 circling a block (I’m assuming in his neighborhood) several times in what looks like pure EV mode. He eventually stops not using up all the remaining energy/before the engine starts. Does everyone agree this is truth, or is it fiction? If true:

I put in the NewPriusBatteries NiMH cells in a Gen 2, can I expect to do the same? Is there the same amount of energy available to circle the block like that?

Jack sent out samples for testing under severe conditions. (I remember noting I did not qualify). I did not see anyone post any negative issues with these beta testers. Were there any glitches? How were they resolved if there were any? Sharing this may help quell what seems to be disbelief, (without having to share technical secrets I mean).

 

Power= voltage x current. Even if the current is the same - if the battery sustains a higher voltage For longer then the net result is more power to the electric motors.

Yes I believe Jack's battery is better as far as: Total energy stored, power delivered, and safety.
Not sure how calendar life and number of cycles compares to NiMH.

His website suggests that there's a separate control board in each module that balances the cells and adds some over current protection. Combine that with undercharging each LiFePO4 cell and you have a very safe lithium battery.

moto g power ?

 

Beta tester here. I just uploaded a video I took of me doing an EV only run in my Prius as well. 2+ miles at 40 mph in a Gen 3, over some ground that is a bit hilly here in WA. This would be the absolute worst case mileage for all EV, since I have it "pegged" in EV mode going as fast as possible. Going a more reasonable 25-30 mph my results are similar to Jacks, especially in traffic.


I also autocrossed it for the first time with the new lithium pack and the pack had charge the entire run. The stock pack would be dead by the end of the run, then I'd need to force charge it while waiting for my next run. Temps on the stock pack would hit 130+ degrees doing this over the course of 6 runs. The lithium pack stayed charged the entire run, force charged quickly since it only lost one or two bars during the run and only hit 106 degrees despite all that. I can't understate how nice it was to have full power from the car through the entire run, although I know the use case in this scenario is pretty unique, it was a huge difference!




As far as bugs, I have yet to encounter an issue. So far it's been a drop in replacement without any issues!

Here's a bonus autocross run video.