Featured Solid-state battery wars

Sorry, which EV can I buy that has these wonderful batteries?

Bob Wilson

 

You can't buy one new unless you have someone build it for you or build it yourself, and if you ask the price you can't afford it.

If you are ok with a hybrid type battery Solid Lithium anode solid polymer electrolyte then a more conventional gel electrolyte and cathode (like solid energy systems) these beasts are running around in a rental fleet in LA in US street legal form. Bollore' Started making these cars as a technological show case in 2011 and sold them in europe, but the cars are discontinued. You probably can make an offer to BlueLA and buy one from them. Specs of the battery pack are not great. 30 kwh, 300 kg and they have a super capacitor (probably adds to that weight) to provide enough power for acceleration. BlueLA says they have 100 mile to 125 mile range. Blue Solutions is working on a gen 2 battery and that is probably what is in some European busses, but the packs are currently in recall. For reference the tesla model 3 and Y long range pack is 82 kwh and weighs 480 kg and I'm sure is a lot less expensive to manufacture than this 30kwh pack used to be. For those that bought the car in france the batteries were leased for the equivalent of $150/mo probably at a loss to the manufacturer.

If you lived in China you could buy the Nio ET7 with 150 kwh solid state battery but it is probably only solid at the anode too. Nio says they will deliver at the end of next year, but my guess is it will be later than that. The battery is claimed to have 360 wh/kg - although I expect this is at the cell level not pack level. That is better than the 260 wh/kg for panasonic lion in production and 300 wh/kg in the lab. It is likely 300 wh/kg lion Panasonic batteries will be in the Tesla model S plaid in a structural cell to chassis configuration. Tesla is selling these now for delivery at the end of the year, but again this is a new manufacturing process so its likely to be delayed although they have prototypes running. The plaid plus and the 150 kwh nio et7 both are supposed to have over 500 miles of range. The nio pack is swappable so if the solid state dies early they can put in a conventional pack or upgrade with a new technology that works better. The cell to chassis tesla is likely to be hard to repair cells so it may be they will use the current chemistry with slightly lower energy dense batteries. My bet is the plaid lion battery adds about the same weight/kwh as the nio solid state.

 

Nio has an option to buy the battery with the car, if you don't care not having access to the swap stations. From what I've read, this is not available for the solid state pack they are coming out with. The lease/swap program for the solid state has a higher price, so they may feel people wouldn't be willing to pay for it, but I expect they are putting out a battery that isn't fully ready for EV use. When the capacity drops too much, or a failure occurs, they can simply pull that pack from circulation, with less ill will from a customer. Meanwhile, they get thousands of miles of on road beta testing as they work on an improved version.

 

Actually QuantumScape specifically said that they plan to build a production factory after their pilot factory, ready to start production in 2024. (Of course, we'll see what comes out of their pilot factory and whether their batteries are actually viable).

 

AND . . . . . i hear their diesel is as clean as Prius exhaust !
wait - they tell the truth now


so the headline - big breakthrough . . . . from the article that means;

yea - them & company. call me when it's at the dealership.

 

Better promises than the 'compliance' crap of the past. Too bad they still can't sell an electrified MicroBus.

Bob Wilson

 

zzzzbest carpet (Barry Minko) suposedly reformed. Got out of the slammer ... wrote about how he'd 'come to Jesus" ... was consulting with the FBI as a fraud expert ...
Barry Minkow - Wikipedia

next thing you know ... he'd devised a scheme to shake down corporations by 'investigating' them. He'd shorted the various companies. Once his firm began the sham investigations, good ol' Barry pocketed on the short. BAM ... back to prison he went.
Fool me once . . . . .
.

 

can’t buy a solid state battery yet but can buy cold weather rated sodium ion

CATL ClaimS $35/kwhr once they hit volume

CATL introduces first generation of sodium-ion batteries; up to 160 Wh/kg; targeting >200 Wh/kg with Gen 2 - Green Car Congress

 

Believe it when I see it, coupled to a decent price.
.

 

Sodium Chloride or Lithium Carbonate?

 

Um, solid state batteries are lithium ion.

 

In which you mention the horrible impacts of lithium ion. I may have jumped to a conclusion in thinking you were referring to mining it, but if that is the case, then solid states are just as bad. Maybe even worse has those lithium salts have to be refined in order to get the metal. That means more energy to make the batteries with a possible additional waste stream from the refining process.