Well this does not inspire confidence in Tesla.

Isn't the memory that is involved SSD. And if so that isn't the simple memory of old where one stick of memory consisted of several memory chips that were read from and written to at the request of the memory buss and the stick did no manipulation. SSD contains logic that is constantly relocating bits across memory so as to even out the use of the bits, contains logic to use spare bits when a bit goes bad, etc. This has evolved over the last 8 years so even $500 computers use huge gobs of SSD memory because it is so much faster than the older DRAM. I'm typing on one of those now. All my data is in traditional memory and backed up. Only the OS and apps are stored on the SSD.

But SSD wears out. Which is why the algorithms that distribute the uses of the bits within the memory modules have evolved over time and more extra spares are included to increase the life of useful the of the total SSD.

So could a design engineer spec'ing the memory to be used in the unit probably in the 2009 time frame for use in 2012 even have available to him the good stuff available now? And could someone in the software house doing the programming for all those improvements that have come with OTA over the last 8-9 years been aware of those hardware limitations? In other words don't be too tough on the Tesla of then.

Now did Tesla have a warranty obligation to fix a 9 year old issue? I doubt it. Did the supplier of the SSD? Did Tesla prioritize cash flow over customer satisfaction?

 

Toyota ramping up for EV's in China (albeit begrudgingly to stay in the country). Baby steps. Let's hope they don't have any more display issues with their electric cars like they did with the display on the 2nd gen Pri (which we owned & loved), which, by the way - could shut down the car. Hopefully the OP would give it a free pass, being from Toyota.

 

Tesla is issuing a recall, so they are standing behind theirs too.

So issues now have to be ones involved in a recall. But if there is a recall, no matter how it came about, then the manufacturer is standing behind their product.

Cuteness aside, Mirai are being recalled in other countries, and not being an official recall in the US does not change the fact that the issue could result in the car stalling on a highway.

From @2k1Toaster and @t_newt discussion, this sounds like a case of software designs not being aware of hardware limitations. The memory in question may not have seen much use in the original design. With updates, someone decided to make more use of it.

The letter itself(I read it) is a lawyer protecting a client. Designed to last 5 to 6 years probably is a better statement there than we messed up.

Tesla has sent out OTA updates to extend the memory's life. The car will now give a warning when it does near dying.

 

One thing that many electronics hate, is lots of heat. We found out from purchasing a blackvue dash–cam (arguably the best on the market). If you read the dash cam talk on Tapatalk, you'll see how easy it is to kill these devices, loaded with its constantly rewritten memory & constant web connectivity. The devices can generate easily -an additional 45°f of temperature, above whatever the environment's temperature might be - because they're so compact.
So - if it's a 100° on a summer day ..... the inside of your car be 150° & higher.

Here's how hot temperatures can get in your car

The extra heat generated from the camera will cause it to be approaching 190°. Any wonder that new Tesla MCU's are liquid cooled? As more & more vehicles jam more & more electronics into ever-smaller areas, this needed cooling will become the norm.

 

This is not new. In 1968 my electronics instructor emphasized that heat is one of the three things that must be controlled to prevent degradation or destruction of solid state components. Every designer of automotive equipment must take this into account.

If there is any single statement that should make the Telsa owner's blood run cold, this is it. The car is controlled by software. As such it needs very strong coupling between hardware and software design. It's a real rookie mistake to have a software design team for a hardware control product that does not understand the environment in which the software is going to run. It's a sign of extremely poor management that the problem was not caught and corrected before it was deployed to 100K cars. It's even scarier if the management knew it was a problem and deployed it anyway.

BTW, for those that think only the console was involved are not taking into account that the console is an input device that is responsible for turning things like the autopilot on and off. If it's data gets corrupted it's commands to the car are likely to become random in nature. Damn, that's scary.

 

must be something new after 2020 .... as our X & S could turn on autopilot features by simply tapping the stock twice, like you do a turn signal stalk. Then if you wanted to turn it off, you would hit the stock again, or simply tap the brake pedal. But hey thanks for the update that they've redesigned it in such a way that you have to go through a console.

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As you say, the console is an input device. The memory dying results in its death. Tesla denies this is a safety issue, and there are no reports of memory failure that dispute that; the car remains completely driveable with the dead screen.

As for scary car software, "During the trial, embedded systems experts who reviewed Toyota’s electronic throttle source code testified that they found Toyota’s source code defective, and that it contains bugs — including bugs that can cause unintended acceleration.

“We’ve demonstrated how as little as a single bit flip can cause the driver to lose control of the engine speed in real cars due to software malfunction that is not reliably detected by any fail-safe,” Michael Barr, CTO and co-founder of Barr Group, told us in an exclusive interview. Barr served as an expert witness in this case."
Toyota Case: Single Bit Flip That Killed | EE Times

At the time, it was discussed here, After losing verdict, Toyota settles in sudden acceleration case | PriusChat

 

in 1968, there weren't miles of code and lots of integrated circuitry in Automobiles. It's a whole new world. Millions more opportunity for code to "flip" as was the case w/ Toyota .... if one's blood doesn't "run cold" at the notion for ANY & all auto manufacturer's potential for errors - then it simply becomes a bias for one or more manufacturers. No manufacturer ought to get a free pass.
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Toyota Vehicles : Toyota Temporarily Suspends Sales of Selected Vehicles / Toyota
"Toyota announced it would recall approximately 2.3 million vehicles to correct sticking accelerator pedals on specific Toyota Division models."

 

Now, you know, don't you, that a bit flip is when a single 'bit' (an element of memory) in a semiconductor changes from 0 to 1 or 1 to 0. This can be caused by such diverse actions as 'cosmic rays' and mechanical breakdown of the internal structure of the semiconductor doe to many, many causes. It's not a coding error. It's hardware.

What the expert in the Troll's post testified to was the fact that there was code that did not check to ensure that data was not corrupted by momentary flaws in the memory or CPU. He did not show that there WAS a flipped bit. He just showed that if one occurred then it could have caused a death and that the code would not have detected it. That was enough for an ignorant jury to decide that if it MIGHT happen, well then it MUST have been the cause of the accident.

Yes, this can be a problem. But flipped bits caused by cosmic rays are rare enough that I'm not worried.

Dan
P.S. Yes, I worked as a systems programer, and worked with several 'fault tolerant' computer systems that were designed to run for years at a time without crashing.

 

Yep. They cut off the bottom of the wife's gas pedal so it could not catch on an aftermarket floor mat. What's your point?

Dan

 

Sigh. It sure would be nice if Trolls would post more than a quote from a website and a link. It would be so much more additive if they included a statement about why that particular link is worth looking at.

 

that it's a design defect ?

that every manufacturer has them?

that many manufacturers try to deny them, once they are discovered ?

that pointing the finger at the other manufacturer's defect serves no purpose, other then to wrongly believe that customers will flip - & purchase from the competition? even though the competition has issues too?

A combination of any or all of the above?

 

When I asked Trollbait what his point was, Hill replied

Boy, I wish i could read minds like Hill does. Isn't it impressive??

 

If you followed the quotes to that side thread, you'd see I was disputing orenji's claim of it not being a recall.

There was multiple recalls stemming from the unintended accelerations involving Toyotas.
2009–11 Toyota vehicle recalls - Wikipedia
Sudden unintended acceleration - Wikipedia

@bisco never specified which one he was exactly referring to for you to claim it wasn't recall.

Whether these action actions are a "real" recall doesn't matter, as the end result is the same; there is an issue with the car, and the manufacturer has to fix it. But if you want to be that anal, then this isn't recall of Teslas. It is a voluntary action to provide a better experience to the customer. It is not a safety recall.

 

Wiki is a resource. Without a reference to when you quoted Wiki your latest comment is simply deflection.