2021 Prime

i wonder if the rear seat is swappable with salvage 4 seater

 

It is probably a question what's underneath the rear seat. I'd say it is likely swappable, though you might want to hold onto the bench seat for resale.

 

I'm waiting for the hover option.

 

I do too, you gain a handy storage bin, since I use my Prius for business, it is very handy.

 

2021 will have tss-2.0. much improved steering sensor compared to 2020/2019 (tss 1.5) and night and day with '17/'18 (tss-p 1.0).

 

I traded in my 2020 LE for a 2021 LE. A few initial observations of what has changed:

Entertainment System

Entune:

Entune is as hot of a mess as ever. Toyota had 2 apps for Android: Entune and Entune 3. This was now combined into a single Entune app. When starting the app on the phone it asks to enter the VIN. There is the option to scan the barcode in the driver's door frame using the camera but all my attempts failed. When typing the VIN by hand, the app says: 'you must use a VIN of a compatible vehicle' and returns to the VIN entry screen. I couldn't find a way to go beyond that, let alone add Entune car apps.

Toyota App

The Toyota phone app on the other hand has become much more useful. It now includes charge state, fuel level, Tire Pressure, Oil level, various states of open/closed windows and doors, and the location of the vehicle. It allows remote charge scheduling and remote climate control. It also is the point where you can activate Amazon Alexa, after which an Alexa app appears on the apps section of the car. While the Toyota app mostly works, it also has its bugs. When you connect the phone via a cable to the car and then pull off the cable, the app freezes and you need to force quit. There is other weird behavior when it is connected through bluetooth. It generally works best when you are not close to your car.

Navigation

When you click on the entertainment system's maps button without android auto connected it says, 'no navigation app installed'. I am not sure if Scout GPS still exists as an option. If so I see no way to install it on the car.

Android Auto

It works very well, and makes most of the above limitations mute. I was expecting a half baked integration, but not so, the integration is first class. You can have android auto running the maps and still listen to FM radio, or alternatively have audio coming from android auto as well in form of Spotify or whatever app you are using. Switching between the car's different screens and android auto takes 1-2 button clicks on the entertainment system and there is no delay at all, it all feels like the same system and everything is fast. You will have to connect the phone via a data cable. Android auto cannot be connected through bluetooth or wifi.

Driving Assist

LTA:

it was really stressful testing this and I was using this only on country roads at 30mph at night without any traffic. When LTA is activated it will show side lines on the middle panel as either grey (system cannot trace lanes) or blue (tracing successful and steering is active).

Here an example of a set of lines not good enough for tracing:



The roads in my area have bad markings and the LTA system would constantly loose the marker. This would also frequently happen if the right line would be interrupted because of a driveway. Automatic re-engagement is very slow. During the time when it picked up there were times when it was steering ok for a minute. However, it was hugging closer to the right line than I liked, as I wanted more reaction time before ending in the guard-rail/trees and I was constantly intervening. I gave it more liberty when it was steering left and it did indeed once oversteer a double yellow to end up in the center of the road before I intervened.

I am not sure how useful this system will be. The stress of always having to worry about it is too much of a tradeoff for the convenience of not having to steer. It's possible that with a better understanding of the capabilities and limitations the stress level could come down enough to make it worthwhile. I think, however, it would be truly useful only in very simple scenarios, i.e. well marked low traffic roads with no intersections like these



Unfortunately these don't exist in my area. Whoever is serious about using steering assist should get open pilot

RSA:

While it's useful always having the speed limit available, in my brief test drives it picked up on average only 1 in two signs (it was dark however). It will also show stop signs. If you have the middle panel showing the drive assist screen, the road sign will be shown there. Else it will be shown on the right edge of the left panel. This is also why the split screen option with the eco gauge for the left panel disappeared from the vehicle settings. If you still want the eco gauge, you can only get it in the middle panel.

 

Thanks for the great review. Considering that in NE, one can trade in 2020 LE to a 2021 LE for a profit, the upgrade is well worth the effort. I recently sold my 2020 PP LE for ~$4K profit but did not pick up a replacement car yet. I was considering the 2020 LEAF. With COVID-19 restrictions and working from home 100%, I don't need my daily driver right now. Well, when the time comes I need my DD again, I may have to keep 2021PP LE as my option, knowing that as long as Toyota offers a huge rebate and the tax credit is still allowed, I can buy it and sell it a year later for a profit again.

Just a few questions and comments on your review.

I thought starting the 2020 PP model, Toyota integrated Entune apps with Toyota App. On my 2020 PP LE, I never used Entune app but it's functionalities were integrated into Toyota App.

Have you used those Remote Connect functionality on your PP? If that functionality is enabled, that's a huge upgrade. Previously on 2020 PP LE model (and XLE and Limited as well) had no Remote Connect capability. That upgrade alone is worth it for many PP owners. The question is, is this upgrade specific to the LE model? The 2021 XLE and Limited models do not have Android Auto integration. Maybe the Remote Connect functionality is also enabled only on the LE model?

That's very good to hear AA works well. Corded AA is a bit cumbersome, but not a huge disadvantage.

Yeah, I have never used LA on TSS 1.0 on 2020 PP and 2017 PP. They werned useful at all in our rural roads. Even on an Interstate highway, the functionality was more of an annoyance than a safety feature. With the new LTA working, does it actually actively steres back to the lane?

 

Yes, here in New England, someone pays us money for driving the car for a year. What a deal.

I cannot find a way to add apps from the Toyota app. When I am not connected via bluetooth, there is no way to do so. When I am connected, then the only screen the Toyota app shows is 'Toyota - Connected' and the only action button is 'Disconnect'. There is nothing I can do with the app when connected.

The UI in the app looks nice, but I tried it out now. It always spins for 30 seconds and then says 'The climate system could not be started. Please check the vehicle communication status'. But the app-car communication seems to work alright, when I open or close windows/doors that status change is shown in the app.

I just spend an hour on the phone with a Toyota service rep, and we went through various troubleshooting attempts with deleting my account and resetting up ,deleting personal data on the vehicle and so on. But nothing changed the response. They now said that their telematics team will look into it and once they do I will receive a reply by email.

LKA seemed more like an emergency system that would kick in when you fell asleep. Best you could hope for is that it ping pongs you from side to side. LTA is different. It actively steers and keeps you in the lane. When it is able to trace the lines it works well and applies just enough force on the wheel that it feels comfortable to override with manual steer. I could imagine that if the tracing would work well, this could be a really useful system. But the tracing doesn't work well on the roads here.

 

While I love the Prius Prime after a few months I am surprised how backward the Toyota software is. It is surprising compared to other manufacturers. I am not sure why that is but perhaps its the corporate culture that does not place software high on its development budget. The have the hardware and quality control nailed down but their software interface is sub par compared to their competitors.

 

Toyota really is a company of two faces. Great mechanical engineering and bad software engineering. Maybe it's because they are so conservative and slow moving. That works well when creating reliable cars but does not work well with software. When they finally get their strategy whitepaper approved through all of their hierarchy, the technology in it is already so out of date that they give up on hiring the necessary resources to implement it well and instead start drafting the next strategy paper. That's the best explanation I have.

I test drove the Hyundai Ioniq PHEV before doing the trade in. The car has electronics that work well and well designed UI. But driving it just felt off. I had to sit lower to have enough head room, visibility was poorer, the transmission jerky. In the end the primary part of the car is the engine and not being a cell phone extension. And now that android auto is working well, someone other than Toyota can make sure that the entertainment system is functional. Best of both worlds.

 

I know this was discussed in another thread, but I still can’t get my head around how this is possible... Why would a dealer be willing to give this much as a trade in if incentives on new are still available? Or, aren’t there some rules with these tax incentives that you need to keep the vehicle for a minimum length of time? Seems like a huge loophole if not. I know in Canada with our federal incentive, the lease needs to be a minimum of 48 months to get the full amount ($5k), anything less is prorated. Though it seems if you buy the car it doesn’t seem to have this restriction...

I just don’t see why everyone wouldn’t do this if it is that easy...? Great work finding this move though!

 

The Canadian system makes a lot more sense.

Here the IRS just states:

There are no limitations as to the time you need to hold it, but of course if you hold it too briefly then that could be deemed as 'for resale'.

The other factor why this is so lucrative are ZEV credits. The manufacturer earns them by selling high efficiency vehicles. And Toyota needs those to offset sales of Highlander, Tacomas, and Tundras. This is state specific though and the way I understand it that's why we are seeing such massive Toyota incentives of 4000 or more specifically in ZEV states. If Toyota wouldn't sell those cars they may have to purchase ZEV credits from other manufacturers.

So the dealer and the buyer are fighting over that combined cake. The dealer knows that the customer is earning money on the trade-in but the buyer also knows that the dealer is still making money. In the end all profit except for the American taxpayer...

 

Well, for one thing, it does not always work in favor of the buyer. You have to be able to get the best purchase price and best trade-in price to be able to break even without the tax credit. Even in the NE with a lofty Toyota rebate, some buyers are paying $2-3K more than the lowest offer you may be able to find. And dealers in NE know about discounts and rebates when it comes to time for the trade-in. If I sold my 2020PP to the nearest dealer for a trade-in, I would have got $2.5k less than Carvana paid me. Also, not every PP buyers will receive the full $4502 tax credit. For someone with less tax liability, the credit will not be as large.

Federal tax credit seems to allow this, but many states' incentives must be returned if the car was not kept for at least 3 years. I am not sure if you received an MA incentive or not, but MA has a similar rule.

The $4502 tax credit is not costing the American taxpayer's money. It is your money that is credited back to your pocket.

 

But don't you think that the vertical design is superior? Aesthetically more harmonious and even visually a better nav view a la Tesla. The way the horizontal ones stick up looks very odd. Another point: I notice the HUD on the Venza is smaller than on the Prius. This is important for older eyes like mine. So hoping against hope that they keep the main elements of the existing design for next gen and incorporate the new changes within that

 

There was a 3 year rule for the hybrid tax credits, but those may not have been available to leasing companies. It may have been dropped with the plug in one to accommodate leases of less than 3 years. Not common, but they do exist.

 

I owned a 2020 Prius Prime XLE Classic Silver Metallic for fourteen months and traded it in for a 2021 Prius Prime Limited Blue Magnetism, which I've owned for two months now.

I find the 2021 model significantly improved over the 2020 model—almost like day and night to me.

Steering in the 2021 model is sharper and more responsive than in the 2020 model. I am not sure how much of it is attributable to the Dunlop Enasave 01 A/S tires on the new one as opposed to the Toyo NanoEnergy A41 tires on the old one, but the car now feels much safer to drive and it is more fun drive.

Toyota Safety Sense (TSS) 2.0 is a huge improvement over TSS 1.0. The older version was next to nothing and did little to bring driver confidence. What I like most in TSS 2.0 is the much more aggressive lane-keep assist (LKA). LKA takes control very often and without warning when you are on the freeway, especially when you're merging on a fork, which brings a lot of confidence to the driver that there is a also a second hand operating the car. It supposedly also has a (side-) barrier detection feature. The road-sign reading and display feature is also useful. However, this said, I got the paper copy of the latest issue of Consumer Reports yesterday, and TSS 2.0 (tested on a Corolla) is one of the lowest-rated electronic safety suites (40 points) among different makes. The Cadillac suite is by far the top-rated (68 points), followed distantly by the Tesla suite (58 points). The lowest-rated is the Mazda suite (28 points)—yikes! The others are Ford (51), Subaru (48), Audi (47), Mercedes–Benz (45), Hyundai/Kia (45), BMW (44), Honda (42), Nissan (41), Porsche (40), Volvo (40), Volkswagen (40), Land Rover (39), and Buick/Chevrolet (36).

Another noticeable change is the much, much louder proximity warning sound in the new model. While some may find it annoying, it's useful, as there may be animals and people nearby that otherwise may get hit.

 

Yes, the famous 'bin' approach! Haven't actually seen the Venza HUD but just judging from the gallery pics, including the one of the digital speedometer on the Venza MFD. The one in the Prius MFD uses a much larger font and I have also grown accustomed to the center location of the Prius MFD cluster which again seems cleaner and clearer to the cramped-looking cluster in the Venza, in the traditional location directly in front of the steering wheel. I find with the large Prius HUD font I rarely look across at the MFD but you kind of see it there on the side without moving your eyes off the road much.