Trading in a 2020 Prius Prime for a 2020 Leaf... Should I?

One other thing to take into account is the cost of using those public chargers. Disclaimer: I've used only one charger one time and it was free due to subsidy by the liquor store.

While visiting family in a 50,000 person town in Oregon, the residential rate for power is 10 cents a kWh and the local charge point varies from free at one extreme to 15 cents per kWh and topping out at $7.50 an hour for a fast charge. You can get free charging at the City parking garage, but that's with a $2 per hour parking fee. In that city the charging stations seem to be vandal magnets. Several that I looked at appeared to be dead.

In short, there are lots of power sources available, but pricing is all over the place. There are many online tools that can be used before hitting the road to (hopefully) ensure that the chargers you need are working.

Dan

 

Have you ever considered to replace both Pathfinder and Prius Prime with a RAV4 Prime? Maintaining one car instead than two is inherently cheaper than two...

 

Reasonable, but again, most people comparatively rarely take big road trips.

Oh, almost forgot: I would not recommend a Nissan LEAF if you live in hot a climate, nor if you’re buying it used and the previous owner drove it in a hot climate. That, since it has, essentially, no battery cooling system, so statistically LEAFs have really bad battery degradation in hot climates.

 

dealership is a non starter for me too. and the leaf hatch is a concern. i would never use it for a trip where i had to charge away from home.

 

You're singing my song now!

We love and will keep a PP, but have been considering a RAV4 Prime to replace one of our other vehicles, a MB coupe used as an occasional tow vehicle. The idea of a longer EV range with ICE backup, additional lugging capacity, and oomph when needed, with $7500 (plus $500 in my state) tax incentives tugs at my emotions.

 

A friend of mine is a salesman at a VW dealership and drives a VW EV. He said lease rather than buy, because BEVs depreciate rapidly. Maybe consider a used one.

 

That’s a reasonable point, but depends upon the details of the EV. Teslas, all in all, hold their value pretty well, but a LEAF, not so much.

 

My understanding is that the $7500 tax incentive is for purchase, not leasing. The incentives were big motivators in our PP purchases.

 

The purchase is pretty tempting. After reading through these posts: I think the Nissan Leaf would be an OK purchase. You won't take it on the interstate. It would be a "newer" car to you. My 2015 Nissan Leaf: although doesn't ride as well as my 2017 PP, its torque seems to be a lot stronger. Also, it seems to be quicker off the line. Another pro's I didn't mention earlier: with the Nissan Leaf: you don't have to charge it every day. I mean you can charge it every 2 to 5 days, depending on your driving habits. A con I didn't mention: my Leaf: night driving: the headlights aren't very good. Maybe the 2020 is much better. The 2017 PP: is excellent with its LED headlights. I think the Nissan Leaf or the PP will serve you well. Saying all this: between my Leaf and PP, if I had a choice to take it to do errands, I took the PP every single time (so long it has enough EV range at that moment).

 

I agree 100% with this. It seems many people see staying within PHEV range as the goal, but unless your main goal is to eliminate ALL gas (vs cost effective / efficiency of purchase, etc), using 100% of available charge each day is actually a benefit PHEV’s have over an EV, where if you use 100% of available charge, you are.... stranded.

Therefore, if driving a Prime the range where you deplete the battery and then drive a reasonable distance on HV after (after warmup, etc), you are using all resource designed in the car, and nothing is “wasted”. In a full EV you may drag around a heavy battery you rarely fully exploit, and in a gasser, well, you burn lots of gas and money and cause more pollution. Lastly, a PHEV that never runs the engine carries around a heavy engine and aging gasoline that never burns, which is also inefficient if you rarely start the engine.

So my conclusion is a drive which exceeds the EV range by a moderate amount is the “ideal” use case for a PHEV.

 

Are you sure they don't take some or all of the discounts, rebates, and tax credits off of the lease price?

 

That’s actually how I bought my used PiP in 2016. It is a rare vehicle in Canada and I negotiated with a Toyota dealer 8 hours away over the phone over a couple days. Eventually reached a verbal agreement, then booked a 1-way flight (~$200) and the sales rep met me at the airport, I brought a certified cheque, signed the paperwork and drove home. Was a bit nervous doing this, but I took faith in this was a Toyota dealer and they would hold their word and they did. The car was in excellent shape as advertised, my only complaint is the car was missing a couple accessories which they refused to replace (driver carpet floor mat - they gave me rubber mats instead), and the roller cover in the trunk, which I replaced from eBay for $100, so not the end of the world.

That said, there certainly is risk, as they know you have already committed by travelling there, so it is a negotiating weakness if there is something that comes up you don’t like, so you need to be extra careful and analyze all details as much as you can in advance...

 

We have had the Leaf for 4 years, and have still never taken a trip with that vehicle where we NEEDED to charge to get there. We bought this car fully planned as a local vehicle, and we use the Prius for any sort of travel beyond 150km or so. However, we do take advantage of free charging when available. Have also never paid anywhere to charge, as it has never been *necessary*, and is always cheaper to charge at home, unless it’s free.

 

Ah, similar situation to me, with similar conclusions.

One other random maintenance thing that drives me crazy about the Leaf is that Nissan doesn’t seem to care about screwing customers (or the environment...) for something like simple windshield wiper replacement.... they are designed such that the rubber blades are replaceable, but calling multiple dealer nobody “has a part number” for the rubber insert only, but can sell the whole assembly for $35! My wife replaced the three wipers once, but $100 later I was not happy... On top of that, the replacement rear blade seemed to wear out quickly (was probably on the shelf for years), and finding an aftermarket to fit that very unique 10” blade was near impossible. My solution? I went to Toyota, bough a rear wiper blade for my Prius (same width), cut about 2” off, and fed it into the wiper assembly and fit perfectly. Cost me $12 instead of $35, and I was not throwing a perfectly good assembly into landfill.

So what is Nissan thinking there other than a cash grab?

Also, their service department has asked us on more than one occasion (dealing with warranty issues, etc.) to ask when we are bringing the car in for an oil change. Uhhh... really? Could be a local dealer quality issue, but we have also received similar promotions from Nissan marketing from head office. Doesn’t inspire confidence.

In contrast, I have had nothing but positive experiences with the Toyota dealer a block away. Even when getting my car serviced, they are very low-pressure; never tried to upsell me on anything, and told me things they see developing but don’t bother with fixing it yet, etc. Get the sense they know what they are doing, and respect their customers. Again, very anecdotal, but just makes me like Toyota better.