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Tesla S weights 4,883 to 4,941 lbs, where as the Mirai weights 4,075 lbs. That’s 8 hundred to 9 hundred pounds more. Hydrogen fuel is lighter than air. Tesla is overweight.

 

15kg is 15kg, but it's really not much....

Wonder how much the Ti shield underneath the battery weighs?...

moto g(7) power ?

 

Heavy enough to keep road debris from blowing up the battery. Who would of thunk it

 

In that same time period, coal went from 30% to 23%. The other minor fossil fuels sources for electricity also went down while renewables have gone up.

Even if all the coal decline was covered by NG growth, it would be a big improvement. NG is cleaner to get and burn, and the new turbine plants using it are far more efficient than the old coal steam ones. So the total amount of fossil fuels burned has dropped with going to natural gas.

So, yeah, I'll take it.
Electric Power Monthly - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Your initial comment made it sound like burning gasoline had no impact. Looking at just weight is an incomplete comparison.

Not being to have a 'truly green experience' is a mark against BEVs, but burning 90% fossil fuel in an ICE is fine?

Depending on where in Wisconsin that Leaf was charged, it could be responsible for less CO2 emitted than a Prius v. Even in the 'bad' area, it is still better than many other cars on the road.

New Data Show Electric Vehicles Continue to Get Cleaner - Union of Concerned Scientists

29% of homes are in an HOA. A number of condos with them are converted apartments, so a portion of HOA home units also face the other issues for getting a charger.

Your comparison is between the wrong cars.

The Model S is in the EPA large car class. While the Mirai is around the size of a Camry on the outside, it is interior volume that determines EPA size, and its put's the Mirai in the subcompact class. The Model 3 is closer to it size than the Model S.

Mirai has 86cu.ft. passenger volume and 13cu.ft of trunk space to the Model 3's 97 and 15 cubic feet. That doesn't include frunk space. The long range AWD Model 3 is just 25 pounds heavier than the Mirai. The standard range one could be over 500 pounds lighter. The Mirai's tanks, without hydrogen, are 209 pounds.

 

Incorrect. The Mirai is a Midsize Luxury class.

 

ICE is definitely going to lose the green debate. (Knowing CA also makes great strides to limit ICE pollution, I don't feel so guilty driving an ICE as long as I keep it up to smog). But BEV proponents don't usually admit or disclose what you've just conceded about BEVs, which would make them harder to sell...

moto g(7) power ?

 

states are all on a different track for getting cleaner. Consider how their may be 20x as many plugin drivers in California or more - versus some of the smaller fly-over States. Would it be preferable to clean up outlier areas first? .... where very few drivers are driving electric anyway? Or is it better to first clean up where most driving is done, in comparison.

that's a great argument. You're right, there should be another 800 or 900Lbs of battery in a fuel cell car, so you could actually drive it outside of its teeny little radius - before running out of hydrogen.

it's made out of the same lightweight material that body armor is made out of, so, not that much

 

Again very wrong. 2016 data was 36.48%. 2015 data was 44.00%. So indeed a strong downward trend. So you went back and read the data you were provided then came back to try to claim the data said the opposite...

Here, lets proofread and correct this incorrect data:

Model 3 weighs 3,552 to 4,100 lbs (highest optioned), where as the Mirai weights 4,075 lbs. That’s up to 523 pounds more with the Mirai. Compressed hydrogen fuel is much heavier than air. Mirai is overweight.

 

A downward trend would have kept going. Let's see for 2020 should be done soon. My point was the shift to BEV has caused increase burning of carbon fuel. That bump back up is evidence. I found that on my own. Google is amazing. Silly you argue like a kid "wrong"....



moto g(7) power ?

 

That is the obvious way to go, but my point was people make a choice trying to "go green" making the change in their lives without knowing where their electricity was actually from. We are in some challenging times people are losing their jobs is a BEV affordable? (That's an obvious one too)... People come to PriusChat all the time asking for advice should they get the more green Prius they are thinking of. The answer a lot of times is "no".

I dare say you're also an outlier even though an X is what $100k you could afford one. My friend said he got the Model 3 because he is sending his kid, now two kids, to a high school who's tuition is in the $30k/yr range. So we have the whole gamut of life here in this city with a decent school district. My cousin lives in an apartment and in contrast I have a friend that spends in excess of $60k/yr on high school tuition...


moto g(7) power ?

 

Even if your assumptions were accurate (they are not)
I could care less as I got the car to save $$$, once the state started taxing unfairly then no it wasn’t worth it to pay taxes for 3000 BEV miles annually, the car was otherwise cheap ($17,500 brand new) and has been reliable with minimal maintenance.

Wisconsin is a net exporter of coal power to Chicago, Madison, Milwaukee, Minnesota and Canada

My local areas needs are 100% met by hydro but it has 4 fossil fuel plants that are 100% for export power so “green states” don’t have it in their backyard.

If other areas (Outside my county) wouldn’t force their pollution into my backward state and my state would quit actively removing hydro and nuclear power sources as a cash grab things would be better.

My main concern are the reactionaries in the state senate that want to fine green technologies as much as possible and keep outdated power sources to increase profits.

 

That's still $17500 you could have kept for upkeep of your prior ICE I assume. Did you trade in? Let's factor that to be fair and then we could estimate fairly. Okay so we have to tack on your tax. It's all inclusive experience, to be fair. (Thanks for the warning I would not recommend to those who say they're from Wisconsin in the future).

Of course they would tax the BEVs, most have money to afford one in the first place. They would not penalize those coal plants providing jobs to people who run it and use it to benefit greenies, that would be unethical...

moto g(7) power ?

 

My prior $500 ICE was EOL but my mother kept driving it anyway, since I needed another car I bought it.

True I could have bought another $500 beater but having a new car with warranty without constant downtime repairing is convient and no other new $17,500 car would have been as reliable or efficient.

Further my guess is the Volt is likely safer than an old beater (just a guess)

 

As it did. Inconvenient that data is, eh?

That's from the kindergarten global warming playbook. "Hey look, stop showing me this inconvenient (statistically significant) long term trend that shows marked global warming for many decades, because look what I found on my own - I found a few (statistically insignificant) temporary years it got briefly warmer, so that means global cooling!"

Yes, and that was already disproven in this thread that the opposite happened. Repeating false statements does not make them any less false.

 

The only similarity to the Model 3 is comparable weight and Midsized. The Mirai is in the luxury category as is the Model S. BTW hydrogen is 16 times lighter than air.

 

There you go putting words in my mouth again. I said CA is going in the green direction. It's just not able to each and every BEV purchase which is usually hidden by greenies. My kid skipped high school. And yours...

moto g(7) power ?

 

No, just using your own words.

 

Not correct. Compressed hydrogen is much heavier. Your homework is to look it up and come back and post the results.

 

You started it!

"Why do you post this data?"... I'm quoting the exact same website you did, but I'm somehow "wrong". Data is data, interpretation is interpretation. I already admitted the net downward trend but noticed an uptick and pointed that out. You attempted to hide the uptick...

If there's still higher natural gas burning than 2017 levels in 2020, would you concede that? Or am I still "wrong".
moto g(7) power ?

 

Come back when you have some data to support your arguments.