Weber State University does P610 deep dive

Lets see if this works
Prime with the ICE off. Micro countergear 10 makes Planets and Sun spin the right way. Number of teeth on planets 23 or 24 doesn't change Sun gear ratio. Based on 833 revs per mile for the Ecopedia tire I get for final drive gear "zero" 13.88 rpm/mph.
Gear Generator

 

Kko k(kko lol o poo p ill ok Oki mlo

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

Kko k(kko lol o poo p ill ok Oki mlo

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

Kko k(kko lol o poo p ill ok Oki mlo

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

First 3 responses. Does the gear generator still work? Looks like it does.

Kko k(kko lol o poo p ill ok Oki mlo

She bop--he bop--a--we bop I bop--you bop--a--they bop Be bop--be bop--a--lu--she bop, Oo--oo--she--do--she bop--she bop

Reminds me of a Star Trek episode.

 

wth is going on?

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

(the thread) zombies have crawled up out of the grave.
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Finally watched this today. It surprised me ...... not having our plugin minivan back then, when this video was released, but Professor Kelly comments that other than being for a compact, the Prime's planetary gear set / tranny is remarkably similar to the big sized one in our 260hp Chrysler plugin minivan. Made me wonder if it's cross licensed (to avoid lawsuits) like Ford & Toyota did - nearly 20 years ago.
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Great video. I love these cars. Somebody called the Prius "NASA-Grade Technology". Sounds about right to me.

 

NASA-grade technology, and also very recognizable in John Godfrey Parry Thomas's patent filed in 1908.

Except for the real-time computer control to make it all work, which was still a ways off in Thomas's time.

 

OMG !!! bringing up a big kudo to the pre-existing Prius Tech and the "real-time computer control" Missing Link. Enter the computer controller Guru who put the important synergy drive touches all together;

The Hybrid Inventor Who Sued Toyota - And Won | WIRED

everyone loves it when the little guy wins.
Unlike John Thomas's patent, which expired decades ago, Alex Severinsky is still to this day raking in around $100 a piece for each Ford & Toyota hybrid. Put yourself in his shoes. You get ahold of a Prius, start taking it apart to see what makes it tick, reverse engineer the controllers only to realize, "HEY! these dirty #@$¥¶ are using my stuff! Prepare to spend years and years going up and down the appeals courts to enforce your intellectual property.
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This is an article from 2013, so some of the comparisons to current hybrids and EVs are a little dated. But still, I think the 1916 Woods Dual Power Model 44 was pretty amazing.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2013/03/21/hybrid-from-a-time-of-transition-the-1916-woods-dual-power-model-44

I saw it at the Henry Ford Museum and was impressed by what they could pull off with such early technology.

 

Holy cow. If I'd been on that jury there is no. way. I would have found in Severinsky's favor. That patent 5343970 is something you could tell apart from a Prius in the dark with your eyes closed.

Severinsky: "For example, Berman et al show two separate electric motor/generators powered by the internal combustion engine to charge batteries and to drive the vehicle forward in traffic. This arrangement is a source of additional complexity, cost and difficulty..."

Severinsky is chasing after a design with one electric motor. And to save himself all that "additional complexity, cost, and difficulty" of using two motors and a simple planetary gear like Toyota did (and Thomas in 1908), he ends up bringing in an electronically controlled two-way clutch on the engine and some hardware he keeps calling the "controllable torque transfer unit" that is mostly handwaving. When he does describe it at all (and in the one example illustration) it is like some kind of an electronically controllable locking differential, only it doesn't just have lock and not-lock, it has a kind of limited-slip semi-lock too. But to cover his bases he says "numerous functionally equivalent devices are known to the art, and are within the scope of the invention." Hey, if you manage to figure out how to build this thing, be sure to pay me for it.

His specific "objects of the invention" include making the motor more powerful than the engine (not the case in Prius), and to run it at such high voltage that it needs only 30 to 50 amps current (not the case in Prius), and to use an induction motor (Prius is permanent-magnet).

I guess he was claiming infringement of the controls, but he barely describes the controls. He talks about a microprocessor "controlling the generation of appropriate AC drive pulses via control signals provided to switching unit, and controlling electronic engine management system and electronic fuel injection, ... also monitors the level charge of batteries via a line and responds to operator commands ... microprocessor is provided with all information relevant to the performance of the system, and appropriately controls torque transfer unit, internal combustion engine, switching unit, and electric motor to ensure that appropriate torque is delivered to the wheels ...."

Well, sure, yeah, that would pass as a list of the things you'd have to do. His drawing of three semiconductor H-bridges feeding a three-phase motor looks a lot like Toyota's three semiconductor H-bridges feeding (each) three-phase motor, but that's because that's the way anybody with background in pulse modulation and variable-frequency motor drives would do it. You're not supposed to be granted patents on the stuff that any knowledgeable practitioner would do.

It really kind of seems like Severinsky insisted on walking face-first into problems and complexities that others had already solved, some as early as 1908, and Toyota generally followed people who solved them, not him. He didn't cite the 1908 patent, nor did the patent examiner seem to find it. He did cite the 1971 TRW patent, which contains a citation of the 1908 one (that's how I found out about it).

The story seems to me more like a testament to the power of lawyers with doubletalk skills and juries with their eyes glazed over.

 

Well, I got this far:

That's when I knew we were talking patent troll. Just google "marshall texas patent trolls."

 

Severinsky began his work in Russia attempting to hybridize tanks which would obviously be an advantage if you could go 1½ times as far on one refuel, raising your mileage from 1 MPG to 1½ MPG. A great time to defect. This is what I read on other bio's. And yes ... his patent involves the controllers. That's what nobody else had yet perfected back in the late 80's / early 90's. If Toyota ever thought he was a troll ... troll or not .... you could be certain that Toyota would have never capitulated.
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What I posted was after I read the patent and could see what it involved. What it has to say about controllers is basically that there should be some, and they should take relevant stuff into account, and control things. And do pulse-width modulation using semiconductors, which was well-established practice.

As with so many things patent-related, a doubletalky lawyer and glazed-over jury will get you a long way sometimes.

 

If it happened today, I would agree. But remember that this case was in 1994. Patent trolling wasn't as developed or as pervasive as it is now. Companies often caved because it was cheaper than defending against them. The caving created a monster just like spoiling a child. These days, investors buy patents in bulk and scan them for ideas that are similar to stuff already in use. Those tend to be general concepts that anyone can dream up rather than technical methods of implementing the concept.

Many businesses seem to have decided that enough is enough and they are finally fighting back. Lately, the trolls have started going after smaller companies. That's partly because they don't have the legal resources of a global or national company. But also because in 2017 the Supreme Court ruled that these suits must take place in the state where the defendant is incorporated. Previously, it could be in any state where they did business, and since the judges in east Texas were favorable to the trolls, that was their favorite place.

 

I think the case was filed in 2004; there weren't any Prii in 1994.

 

Oh yeah. The patent was in '94.