Featured How serious are automakers about electrification?

Batteries are (still) expensive.

Like a lot of folks in that comments section point out, David Murray (former active PC member) ignores the demand factor.

Auto manufacturers are aware of the writing on the wall and are waiting for the battery tech/prices to reach viable levels.

My 2 cents.

 

And another comment mention it doesn't take into account what some companies are investing into Ev development and production.

Then it is only looking at the US market. Europe and China are both bigger, and even some American companies will sell most of their upcoming EVs there first.

 

I’m not seeing the A-team engineers working on EVs except China and Korea. Everyone else assigns the B-team engineers.

Bob Wilson

 

most manufacturers are hedging their bets, but hoping oil prices stay low and goverments don't force their hand

 

Speeding the transition to EVs requires dramatic changes to traditional auto manufacturers. Short sightedness makes this even more difficult.
As this transition will cut profits in the short term, there was little incentive to push that transition.

Now, however, some companies are making that push, and traditional manufacturers are left with the option of the short term loss of profit or the loss of market share as the new guys get bigger.

 

What does "hedge" represent? What is the "low" limit? Every automaker has some type of electrification plan, so such a vague statement doesn't tell us anything. Of course, that "force" is doesn't tell us anything either. Such absence of detail is just wasting everyone's time. Remember how the "success" game has been played in the past.

How about actually sighting some measurable target, like what CARB sometimes does? For example, 2 decades ago there was a requirement set for 10% of automakers sales needing to be ZEV by a specific date for dealers to remain qualified to sell.

We need a who and when and how much. Otherwise, there's no point. Heck, just look at the article. What does "serious" represent?

 

Similarly in rocket science these days, it's hard to notice which rocket builders are on the path of success when SpaceX is so far and away ahead of their competition. When you compare what Tesla is doing with battery production in relation to other auto makers right now, it would be easy to conclude that only the A-eam engineers are working at Tesla and SpaceX, but in truth, it's that compared to the competition these companies design and refine and produce new concepts at a much, much faster rate...

 

Weird piece. Kind of absurd. I felt like I was reading one of those financial opinion pages where someone tries to make the case that money or some type of asset have their own desires and price targets independent of any investor action or market reality.

It's okay Mr. Murray, we understand it's an EV blog. We weren't expecting anything more than a listicle about your personal favorites anyway.

 

we don't need anything, it's just a chat room for entertainment. we're not saving the world here.

 

That is the way you treat it, bringing down the integrity and usefulness of others. That's really unfortunate. Seriously, with the knowledge available, we can be doing a lot of good. Wasting the opportunity at a time of transition like this makes it especially frustrating. Why fill up discussions with pointless comments? That's not what leaders do.

 

why don't you make some earth shattering comment on the o/p, instead of attacking people for their opinions?
you're feisty tonight

 

From the other side of the world - I say, come back in 10 years time and ask that question.

Nobody yet has answered what we're going to do with a billion ½ tonne dead batteries every 10-15 years.

 

The specific methods will vary based upon the battery type. With the exception of Tesla, the bulk of all other EVs share no common format. But the but the general flow:

• intake separate - remove wires and external structural elements into bins.
• shred - reduce the remaining parts to small particles, coarse sand. Needs to be in a hood to condense and neutralize vapors.
• magnetic separation - separates metals.
• density separation - baths or air blasts separate less dense from more dense materials.
• acid or base separation - combined with above, enriched liquid or residual go through separation.
• thermal separation - use temperature gradients to separate useful material.

To understand this better, look at how 'ore' becomes feedstock for batteries. Used batteries have the greatest concentrations compared to raw ore of what is needed to make new batteries.

There is already a cottage industry recycling crashed Prius batteries into older models.

Recycling batteries requires a stream of feedstock. In 10 years, there should be enough to make a business case. IMHO, Tesla will establish a battery recycling facility adjacent to their newer battery manufacturing. This is something a vertically integrated company can achieve.

Bob Wilson

 

The batteries aren’t dead in 10-15 years.
In 10-15 years the batteries may no longer be useful in cars due to the range being reduced about 30%.
At that point the batteries will still work perfectly for home, business or even grid backup.

As noted above, recycling is well understood and is being planned as feedstock increases.

 

why don't you make some earth shattering comment on the o/p ?

I asked first on this thread and have on a regular basis for that very reason. Then I followed up with an explanation and contributed to the discussion itself. I was hoping you would do the same instead of just projecting.

 

actually?

your first post is a criticism of mine

 

what would constitute earth shattering ....

went back - & your prior post said there's a need to discuss the, "..... 'who what when' ...." but
that kind of vague trigonometric theorem speak .... it's not comprehendible to the average comprehension - which iirc is around High School freshman level. I have a postgraduate degree & it still makes me wonder, "what does that even mean". Looking back at older posts where the, "who - what - when" double speak is the answer ... there aren't any posts from other members that understand - that can help any of us thicker skulled members - when those kind of answers are given as the answer.
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