Featured 2021 Camry and Avalon Hybrid Now Use Li-Ion Battery For All Grades, adds TSS-P 2.5+

very interesting. i wonder if the size is reduced, creating more space.

 

good point. is the 2021 online now?

edit: just checked, still showing 2020

 

Rav4 hybrids being made now have switched to Li-ion without changes to other equipment.
From the specs page of the Toyota's site, "Multi-electric motor assist with power output of 118 hp, 149 lb.-ft., 650V maximum electric motor voltage and 259V sealed Lithium-ion (Li-ion) traction battery. Available on production models after June 2020."

The move for either model likely has more to do with cost savings than weight savings. Li-ion is cheaper than NiMH, but Toyota doesn't have the the supply to completely switch from NiMH.

The physical weight difference between the safety suites is small. Then the heavier, feature filled trims of Camry were using the heavier battery. Perhaps if Toyota was introducing a solar roof like the Sonata, then maybe weight is a consideration.

It's like the Prius batteries; the performance and usable capacity are near the same. The Li-ion pack will be smaller, but we are talking about an already small hybrid battery, and the space is under the rear seat. Not something easily changed at this point. The next Camry hybrid, with Li-ion in all, might have a rear seat the same height as the ICE model instead of an inch or so higher. Besides, the empty space helps with shedding heat for air cooled packs.

 

oh man, they have really gone front end all out ugly

 

You would think so but when they added additional standard safety features in mid 2017 they decided to remove the cargo cover and mounting from the Two Eco. Why else would they make that change mid year??

 

Wasn't the cover a flimsy piece of stretched fabric, like windshield shades? Something light weight to begin with? As a detachable accessory, it its weight even included in the car's?

Decided to check the google. The Eco didn't get the retractable cover like other Prii. The roll up type had some heft to them. The Eco got a light weight, wire framed piece of fabric. If its weight was enough to counter added sensors, the Eco was borderline for a heavier weight category, and the sensors added maybe a couple of pounds.

The addition of safety features were done as a no charge package in response to Ioniq, and I don't think fuel economy certification is required more often than once a year.

The removal of the cover could have had no relation to the addition of other equipment. It may have gone because of cost, supply issues, or customer feedback. I'll go with money, because making a different cargo cover for a single trim of a model probably wasn't cost effective. More profit in deleting it, and letting customers buy the more common cover if they want.

When it arrived, the Sonic had an engine bay belly pan for aerodynamics. GM dropped it because some shops weren't taking it off for oil changes, and some fires happened as a result. No change to the EPA numbers happened because of the deletion of that pan.

 

They kept it on the Trim Two like mine though as well as the Three and Three Touring.
On the Eco they even used different side moldings without any mounting.

 

I’m surprised, and glad to hear they are switching up all Li-ion!

I prefer lithium over NiMh because they can charge and discharge quicker, and even though they will loose their capacity over time, they essentially keep the same performance as new. Plus modern Li-ion are stable in old age, less prone to a weak or dead cell.

One of the draw backs to Li-ion is you can’t really tell when they might die, they’ll be working perfectly one day, and might die the next. Keeping their performance till their death.

Also they aren’t as durable in extreme temps, that’s okay for most people though.

 

You mean people like Prius owners in Florida and northern states? I think most of the country hits either extreme hit or extreme cold sometime during the year.

 

lithium hasn't been an issue here. perhaps it depends on chemistry

 

It also has not been around as long. Are there high mileage PiPs?

 

couple hundred thousand, one in az i think. toyota put nimh in the awd prius due to suspected cold climate purchases, but i don't really understand why.

 

They said it did not charge as well in cold if I remember correctly.

 

No people in FL are just fine. -25 to 30 could be a problem though.


My almost 8 year old C-max hybrid has a lithium ion battery. I have 170k a no issues. The coldest it’s seen is 0, and hottest it’s seen is 105. Never an issue.

 

Exactly!! but hey, it will work well up until that dreaded day!

And God bless, there won’t be all of those silly threads about replacing random modules, since you can’t do that with lithium ion. Thank you Jesus!

 

Looks like they went with just the retractable cover when they dropped the numbered trims. If the 'rigid' cover was of notable weight, why even bother putting it in the Two Eco in the beginning?

Could the old Eco accommodate the retractable cover when the rigid one was dropped?

Standard lithium can't be charged at normal rates when the cells are below freezing. Only a low power, very slow charge can be used until the cells have warmed up, or they will be damaged. Or a supplemental battery is installed.

Then NiMH doesn't take as much of a performance hit in the cold as Li-ion, which is the reasoning for the AWD to Prius to have it, but the Rav4h is now using Li-ion.

The 7 seater Prius v's overseas also used Li-ion. The Sonata hybrid has been using lithium since 2011, and the Fords since 2013. The last year of the IMA Civic also used lithium.

 

The Four and Four Touring gat the retractable cover. All others got the flimsy cover in 2016. So it was the flimsy cover and mounting hooks and knobs that got removed and new moldings with no mounting places used.