Featured 2 New Toyota Hybrids To Be Revealed May 18

2020 Spring New Product Showcase - Toyota USA Newsroom

New information on Venza and Sienna.

Well they’ve set up the Venza to Prime it later on since it uses the RAV4 Hybrid power train. 40 mpg combined on the Venza and 33 mpg combined for Sienna. They sure weren’t looking to cut weight with the Sienna with a frigerator and vacuum on board.

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Huh. I guess I see this one as a mixed bag.

I have to offer them a hearty congratulations on the new Sienna- that really seems like an amazing van, and I think they've done a great job with it.

I'm very disappointed by the new Venza though. It's lost the last of its station wagon roots and now it's just another identity-free CUV.

 

But they claim the opposite:

"Toyota is breaking the sameness barrier"

Or do they...

(I see now, as you scroll down the page, that's sort of the title, the theme.)

With the Sienna, a "feature list" shows at least there's an optional spare:


(No similar "feature list" shown for the Venza.)

 

Yeah I was kind of hoping the new Venza was as wide as the old Venza. Weird they gave the Venza 219 HP while the Sienna is 243 HP - same engine. Good news though is I still have the 19” wheels from the old Venza. But I won’t be getting the new Venza.


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I don't understand the urge to bring out the Venza when it is so similar to the Rav4. What are the differences that matter?

 

There, fixed it.

Yes, it gave me a chuckle seeing their headline, because that's pretty much the opposite of what they appear to have achieved.

 

I believe it is the american version of the Toyota Harrier
Toyota to Unveil New Model Harrier in Japan | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

My question is that even with same 2.5 powertrains, Venza prompts 40 MPG while the Sienna only 33MPG, does the bulky Sienna make a heavier foot?

 

American minivans are huge compared to what you see there.

 

Again, I think it's interesting to see Toyota's approach. The goal of 100% electrification of their entire line-up and 25% of their sales is pretty lofty.
As far as the products revealed today?
I like to try to pay attention to language, I found it interesting that during the Sienna introduction the term "Mini-Van" is used very rarely. I have never had anything against "Mini-Vans" but somewhere along the line that term picked up a negative connotation In fact, the Sienna is introduced with the terminology as being "influenced by the bold character of SUV's". As having the "sporty slant on the traditional family hauler".
All new. ALL HYBRID.
That's a big commitment to hybrid products.
I suppose if you are going to "electrify" your entire line-up, and by that, it means hybridize your line-up, committing to ALL Hybrid, is an interesting move. Part of the challenge of selling a Hybrid version of an existing ICE model was always the comparison between the two available versions. Coming up if you want a Sienna, you won't have a ICE choice. You won't have the challenge of the consumer pitting the Hybrid choice against the ICE choice. And if you're a Toyota salesman? Better bone up on the Hybrid information, because there won't be any steering a buyer to the ICE choice.

I asked back in my original post:
" 10 years back, I heard the goal of Toyota was to offer a Hybrid model for every ICE model they had.
Then you had the seeming abandonment of that concept, with the birth of the "Prius Family", which now has been killed off like characters in a CLUE game.
Now it seems Toyota is gravitating back to their original approach which is to offer alternative Hybrid models for existing ICE models."

It seems Toyota is not only once again saying "electrification" of their entire line-up, but a transition away from offering pure ICE vehicles entirely.

As far as launching that cruise ship, during a hurricane? I thought the presentation did a good job of embracing the reality of the moment. Actually using it to advantage.
It was Toyota's way of saying "Serenity is not Freedom from the Storm, but peace amidst the storm".
Which I thought was really brilliant.
Acknowledgement that these aren't normal times, while launching products that look forward to a return to "normal" times. I thought this was presented and handled well.


As far as the future. Things are always easier said than done. Electrification across 100% of the lineup, and Hybrid models comprising 25% of sales, are I think high benchmarks to reach in 4-5 years. But it seems Toyota is committed to these goals.

The Sienna itself?
Hey, speaking as someone driving a compact Honda Fit, ICE, that get's a combined MPG of realistically around 30 mpg, while the Sienna is bigger than anything I would need, I think it's an exciting reality that a family could soon own a vehicle capable of hauling the family, having it's own refrigerator, and it's own built in vacuum AND get a reported 33 mpg combined. That's a lot of room, space, and features, and a MPG return once associated only with compact and sub-compact vehicles.

Evidently the new Venza is as reported and noted in the introduction, built on a NEW TNGA K platform. A NEW platform. So this isn't Toyota going back and reverse engineering from an existing ICE platform. This is an all new Hybrid platform .These are All New. All Hybrid.

I thought the Venza reveal was far less interesting. Self frosting panoramic moon-roofs, and revelation that it will have safety features in line with the safety features of all Toyota vehicles, is a far less awe inspiring reveal, IMO.
And even though, Toyota is reportedly moving toward that "electrification" of it's entire line-up, with the large family orientated Sienna, and the existence already of the Rav-4 hybrid and Highlander, I would of maybe been more interested in a product that wasn't in the CUV line-up.

All vehicles sales in North America continue to seem to gravitate more and more to almost exclusively the idea that Americans will ONLY buy large vehicles or desire only SUV's.
There may be more truth to that then I want to admit, but I personally would of liked to see a surprise product.
Give me a Hybrid Supra, a budget entry level Hybrid Yaris, or a even a Hybrid Tacoma. I know due to powertrain the challenges of a hybrid truck are considerable, but I just think the Venza given that the Hybrid Rav-4 already exists, was a little less exciting product reveal. While reasons why I should be excited about the "difference" the Sienna represents were presented, far less reasons why I should be excited about a Hybrid Venza were presented. The Venza release seemed to be more about it's styling and looks, even though 40 MPG was mentioned.

Maybe at this age, I get less excited about styling ques. I've seen so many come and go. So the fault for my tempered excitement about the Venza may be entirely mine.
But personally I didn't find the styling to be all that groundbreaking. The grill and the lines reminded me of recent Mazda Products.
This is neither here nor there, but also personally, I don't like the dash's with the built in "tablet" look. But that is also a matter of personal taste.

Anyway, I thought for launching a cruise ship during a hurricane Toyota did a good job.

Now all they have to do is build em, and sell em......

For all manufactures it's sales that lead what is built. 25% hybrid sales by 2025? We shall see, that's not a long time to reach an aggressive goal.

 

I wanted to get up and watch this live.
Guess who slept in?
But I guess it's a bit of a nerd like obsession that would lure me into wanting to view this in real time.

I was more impressed with the Sienna. But maybe with 40 MPG and in person, the Venza would impress me more?
But maybe what you mention is exactly why the Venza seemed less exciting. The Lexus RX? With the Venza, I had much more the feeling I've seen products "like" this before.
With the SIenna, I felt like...that's ALL NEW. A real, family sized Hybrid Mini-Van.

Side Note: You could almost feel the palatable aversion to using the term Mini-Van. I think it is mumbled about twice in the presentation, surrounded by descriptions of how it's styling is so UN-Mini-van like.

So my question is, why doesn't Toyota, and really the whole Auto Industry, just drop the term "Mini-Van"? It's IMO unfairly gained negative connotation. Whether someone is, or not, nobody likes to SAY they are driving a Mini-Van. I think a lot of people that end up in SUV's really want Mini-Vans, they just don't want to drive something called a Mini-Van.
So as I watched the presentation and the not so subtle dance around avoiding that term, I just wonder why the designation isn't dropped in entirety.
Call em, LSUV's.....Large Sports Utility Vehicles. or something like that. That kind of avoids that Soccer Mom, Mini-Van label that everyone seems to NOT want to embrace, even if they want the benefits of driving a "Mini-Van".

 

Globally Toyota/Lexus electrified sales in fiscal 2019 were 20.3% of total sales. In FY2014 they were only 13.4%. The 25% goal in 5 years seems very achievable especially if Toyota continues to make new models hybrid-only. I would not be surprised if they reached 50% or higher by 2025. They have already done that in Europe.

 

meanwhile Toyota, in the Sienna press release, is putting down plug ins:

"Critically, the Sienna has no plug, and there is no need to ever recharge the hybrid battery pack, and certainly no need to spend a couple of thousand dollars installing a battery charger in a garage. The Toyota Hybrid System II charges the hybrid battery automatically as the vehicle drives."

They make a 20 Y.O. concept sound like it's brand new

 

You're still plugging in?? All the cool kids went cordless!

 

I have some interest in the fact that the wording used is "Electrification" of the line-up.
That would leave the door open to products outside the Hybrid realm....pure EV's.
Maybe nothing, I might be over thinking it, but Toyota said "Electrification", not "Hybridization".

You also might be right about reaching that 25% goal. Maybe that's not as daunting as it sounds.

But I think the challenge may not be so much what Toyota does within Toyota, but how these Hybrid products compete against other manufacturers Non-Hybrid offerings.
The USA still loves fossil fuel, and the majority of buyers still are ICE dominated.

In other words, Toyota could reach 25% of their own sales, BUT if their overall sales slip in comparison to their competition? That could be a problem.
How many buyers does Toyota lose, because buyers look at a Honda CRV instead of a Hybrid Venza?
Cost of these Hybrid offerings vs. somewhat similar non-hybrid offerings, of the competition, is still an important factor.

To ride the cresting wave, to go before, sometimes means you land on an empty beach.

 

Too little, too late. I was calling for the Estima, a hybrid miniVAN in 2006-2007. Speculation, I wonder if the Severinsky patent finally ran out. The Pacifica, a plug-in hybrid, still leads the way.

Bob Wilson

 

They also have differing horsepower (Venza 219 to Sienna 243). The Sienna is using the NiMH battery (stuffed under the front seat area no less). Not sure if the 243 hp is with AWD only but probably. You’re talking about a vehicle (ICE only) that weighs 4430 lbs (2009kg) in its lightest configuration and has a 200.6 inch (5095mm) by 78.1 inch (1984mm) footprint. The Sienna also has more cargo space behind the third row than RAV4 has behind its rear seats. So yeah I can see the Sienna getting lower gas mileage.


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I combined HEV,PHEV and FCV sales totals. Toyota provides a combined figure in its sales spreadsheet. Presumably they would include any BEVs they sold worldwide.

The pricing is definitely important. To go "hybrid-only" on some models must mean that Toyota is sure it can still be competitive with conventional gas cars on price, while beating them on overall cost of ownership.

The thing is, hybrids are still new to most US buyers. Clearly Toyota is targeting ICE buyers. It may be surprising to us on PriusChat, but many of those people still think there is something different about driving and fueling a hybrid. That is partly because other manufacturers have offered plug-in hybrids and de-emphasized non-plug-in hybrids. When there is only a hybrid powertrain, Toyota has to make sure that is not seen as a disadvantage. As people get used to the RAV4 Hybrid and Toyota's other hybrid models, they will see they have smooth, quiet, reliable, powerful drivetrains that just happen to use less fuel.

The diesel fraud set back Toyota's global hybrid plans, especially in Europe, but they continued to launch hybrid models in Japan. I predict the Sienna will vastly outsell the Pacifica PHEV.

 

Off topic, and far, far less serious.
Of the two revealed extra's on the Sienna, the built in vacuum and the back-seat refrigerated space, do either really interest you? Or do they feel like transitory gimmicks?

I think I could really like a built in vacuum, but my concern would be how really useful it would be. Meaning how powerful is the vacuum, how long the tubing can reach, and where is it stored? How/Where do you empty the vacuum, and what it's holding capacity?
If it falls short in any of those areas, it suddenly becomes almost useless, if I need to find a place to store the tubing, nozzle, then maybe even a nuisance. In the very short glimpse, the nozzle and tubing seemed impotently short.
At that point, just give me my shop vac, home cordless vac, or I'll just take it to a coin operated vacuum set up.
But if it works? That is strong enough, designed to be really used to clean the vehicle, and has it's own dedicated storage space. Then it could be a really neat feature.
The refrigeration unit?
I think I like that idea better. But again, depends on how well it actually works. There are simple age old utilitarian options that allow me to transport cold beverages. So all though I think it's could be really, really nice, it's a long way from a deal maker for me.