Featured 2 New Toyota Hybrids To Be Revealed May 18

That is another "seems" example of rhetoric. Antagonists pass along the "take hold in the market" as a red herring, hoping you'll follow it without question. They don't want you to discover BEV will co-exist. Reality is, the need for fleet & commercial vehicles with fuel-cells is already there and the oil industry embracing it inevitable. Our cargo transport must shift away from diesel. So, there will be high-volume production of hydrogen anyway. Toyota is simply diversifying its business, seeing that obvious opportunity to share EV-related technology. Using the Marai platform to help refine that technology is a sensible approach.

 

It's rhetoric. But more primarily it's my opinion. And I'm not really passing it along...I formed it for myself, by myself.
I'm more than happy to hear other opinions or other reasons why Toyota is releasing these vehicles at this time.

And it's not ethereal. Toyota has gone through approach changes in how they seemed to want deal with the future of Hybrids. They did at one point, seem to promote the idea of individual hybrid alternatives for corresponding ICE models. THEN they did seem to stray from that model, with the release of the Prius Family. All from the ground up built Hybrids. Now once again, with the death of the Prius Family, I think it fair to say Toyota has returned to the Hybrid corresponding ICE vehicle model.

With this release, what will be interesting to me, is how much of these vehicles are from the ground up built hybrids, and how much are they hybrid technology, being integrated into the regular ICE platform.
The question to me, is with the death of the Prius family, should we ever expect a NEW from the ground up built hybrid? Or will the future for Toyota be continued introduction of Hybrids that are Hybrid versions of existing ICE models?
I tend to think, the Prius model line alone will be the only truly from the ground up built Hybrid. But I could be wrong.

 

All good points but I think they designed the various TNGA platforms around Hybrids first since the first off of that platform was the Prius 4th Gen and then the Prime. The new RAV4 Prime is coming from the same TNGA as their gas only models. Based on on their developing a new TNGA for their “Electrified” push, they’ve demonstrated their willingness to adapt.


iPad ? Pro

 

I'm game for a replacement for my Prius v in the future with a redesigned TNGA platform Venza in the future. The Venza is still being sold overseas and will likely be redesigned with TNGA in the next generation.

 

You are forcing a perspective that doesn't make sense for bottom-up design. It's a challenge for those who have only known top-down. They want to see something to check a box on their checklist, even though that approach isn't the better choice. This is why the KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE comes up so often. Understanding the market you are targeting is key.

A great example of this is the "waterfall" methodology most software developers used for decades. It worked great. Why would you want to change something so well proven? That question is easier to answer now that we have many "agile" success stories. In other words, Toyota is demonstrating flexibility by making lots of adjustments along the way. That's a huge benefit from having a platform with that intent... especially when trying to adapt to a dramatically changing market.

To be specific, this is how TNGA came about. That is an architecture designed from the start to be a hybrid, but rolled out as a traditional vehicle. You see an existing ICE model without any realization that it is actually a hybrid with backward compatibility.

We have seen that flexibility for a long time, well hidden to those who don't look for it. Way back in 2003, the system in the second-generation Prius had an oversized traction motor and a PSD capable of delivering 100 km/h using only electricity. Although that opportunity to support EV was available, it was never exploited... and therefore assumed, impossible. That "ground up" wasn't acknowledged.

The same should be obvious now with TNGA-e intent. How much of that necessary design is already in place, already providing real-world data? Again, this is how the KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE comes into play. Toyota customers in general don't want a "ground up" vehicle. They want their own familiar vehicle to now offer a plug.

Put another way, Toyota can play the discreet game exceptionally well. After all, most people have no idea how a vehicle is designed anyway.

 

Earlier Prii weren't built on a hybrid platform. Just an ICE platform. The loss of cargo space wasn't obvious because there wasn't an ICE version for direct comparison. Toyota did incorporate weight cutting strategies not used in their ICE models, but they could have done so for those models.

As mentioned TNGA was designed for hybrids in mind. It wasn't designed for larger batteries, nor hydrogen tanks, though. Better packaging of PHEV sized batteries is possible, given time and resources. For BEVs, it will require a reworking like the Trax platform underwent for the Bolt.

 

Everything I've ever read was that Prius was designed to BE Prius from the start. That is to be a Hybrid. It wasn't the adaptation of Hybrid Technology being added to an existing ICE vehicle.

I know I remember a decade ago, being in Prius Chat, and Toyota proclaiming their future for Hybrids was to offer a Hybrid model for every ICE model. I remember because at the time I wrote things like "How is that going to work when you have Prius, and then a Hybrid Toyota Matrix?".
In the interim it seemed to me that Toyota got away from that model. Suddenly the "New" hybrids were "Prius", and it was all in the family.
Then with the success of the Rav 4 hybrid, and the Godfather like killing off of the Prius family, I think Toyota is returning to the original approach they heralded a decade ago.

 

No because I'm not forcing any perspective. I'm not saying one approach is better than another.
I'm just saying there IS something to the fact Toyota in a relatively short time killed off the Prius Family, and is now releasing Hybrids with existing ICE badges.
I suppose one could argue the DNA of the Prius c, was very much a Hybrid Yaris. But the Prius V, IMO was a Prius unto itself.

Only the future will reveal itself. I just doubt very much we will see any Hybrid product from Toyota in the future, outside of the Prius itself, that isn't a Hybrid version of an existing ICE model.

 

There was no shift. Ugh. We always knew the other vehicles would get their upgrade. Toyota simply does rollouts in stages. Believing otherwise is how a narrative comes about. Think about it. Why would an entire fleet become "Prius" and everything else discontinued?

This is why "PHV" was overlapped with rollouts of the C and V models. They were concurrent technologies with different scopes and different audiences. The naysayers cherry-picked a perspective to mislead about intent.

That's a red-herring.

 

Nope...just a statement. Agree or disagree. I don't really care.

By my memory, there clearly was a shift.

And I'm up for people disagreeing with me, and a sporting debate....but do you REALLY have to put "Ugh" after every oppositional statement?

 

It was designed to be a Prius, but it wasn't a clean sheet design. The Prius team started with an ICE platform that Toyota already had. Now there was advantages in doing this over taking an existing model, and converting it to a hybrid.
Toyota MC platform - Wikipedia
I had a 2004 Matrix and a 2005 Prius. The Matrix had more storage under the cargo are floor.

The Camry and Highlander/RX hybrids came out soon after the gen2 Prius. Then the Auris in Europe, and I'm sure others in Japan(there have been at least three hybrid minivan models there), before the Prius family came about. Toyota never really left the hybrid for every model plan. They just are taking their time with it, which could be because of local market conditions.

The Prius family thing was really only in North America. Other places got the Prius v, but wagon versions of hatches were common in those markets. They didn't get a Prius c. Japan called it the Aqua, with no Prius ties. Europe got a hybrid of the Yaris instead because of import taxes.

The v didn't sell well in the US, but is still available elsewhere. The c/Aqua is getting replaced globally with the new Yaris hybrid. It could bear a different name in different markets, but will still be a Yaris hybrid. Since NA no longer gets an actual Toyota Yaris, smaller cars generally don't sell well here, and fuel is cheap here, I don't see it coming to the US.

 

I believe you are wrong about the Prius V. All information I can find says the Prius V has been discontinued...not being built.

And the Prius c, being replaced by the new Yaris hybrid, I think just supports what I'm saying. Moving forward there will be no rebirth of the Prius Family, -just Hybrid branded versions of existing ICE Toyota offerings.

 

Yes.

That first stage was about cost reduction, making it possible to phaseout traditional vehicles.

Again, this is Toyota's approach... a continuous series of improvements.

 

It is known as a Prius+ or Prius Alpha in other markets. Still on the Toyota Europe site.
Toyota Prius+ Overview | A car that stands out | Toyota EU

The Prius family was just a marketing strategy for NA. I think mainly to help the Prius c, as it was the only one not actually a Prius, and in a segment that normally is lower sales. It wasn't a global plan on Toyota's part, and could have been all Toyota USA.

There originally wasn't going to be a Prius family, but there was going to be the spread of hybrid tech to ICE models. That plan didn't stop because there was a Prius family in NA. Hybrid fans may have been disappointed that Toyota didn't move faster on it, but it never stopped.

 

Sorry, when I did a Google search I got very North American slanted results, Just that the Prius V had been discontinued. Not anything about it still being built and available in Europe under a different badge name.
I'm going to keep that Toyota Europe link bookmarked for future reference.

 

Toyota literally wrote the book on continuous improvement and has a long success record of planning way ahead.

 

I've bought a brand new Prius+ last november, because of the 7 seats. They still sell a few thousands in Europe. There aren't many hybrids MPV after all.